In the End, It’s All About Rape Culture—or the Lack Thereof
Posted on April 7th, 2015 in Uncategorized | 365 Comments »
I’ve taken a couple of days before responding to Columbia Journalism School’s report on the Rolling Stone/Sabrina Rubin Erdely/Jackie fiasco. There’s always pressure to provide near-instantaneous reactions to news events, but the report is long and substantive. I wanted to take some time with it.
At last, I’ve finished the thing —and I have plenty of reactions.
The blog post below is long, probably too long, so forgive me, and if you don’t feel like reading all of it, just skip to the last couple paragraphs.
Anyone reading this blog probably know the gist of the report. (And thank you all for your comments—I’ve really enjoyed reading them.) Here’s the takeaway: Rolling Stone screwed up in every way imaginable, but no one’s going to get fired, the magazine has no plans to change its editorial or fact-checking procedures, and Sabrina Rubin Erdely will again grace the magazine’s pages with her Hemingway-esque prose and ironclad reporting.
This heads-will-not-roll resolution, along with comments from owner and editor-in-chief Jann Wenner that again seemed to put the onus of responsibility on Jackie, doesn’t seem to have quelled the anger over Rolling Stone’s bogus journalism. (Although part of me agrees with Wenner: Jackie is a liar, and we shouldn’t forget that. She does not escape responsibility because, as I heard managing editor Will Dana say on NPR the the other day, she’s “a girl.” She’s a college junior, a young woman, a legal adult, and of an age where, if you called her a girl, many women of her age would take offense. Let’s put it this way: She is old enough to know better, and to suggest otherwise is sexist.)
Anyway. I thought the Columbia report was…pretty good. Its authors clearly put a lot of time and thought into it. Its strength—and, depending on your perspective, its weakness—was the tight focus of its scope. There is a lot that Steve Coll and his colleagues did not get into or did not get into much: whether anyone should be fired, catfishing, the Department of Education’s crusade against the “epidemic” of campus sexual assault.
But in terms of what it did do—investigate the reporting, editing and fact-check processes at Rolling Stone—I thought the report was very solid.
In all immodest candor, I also thought that Columbia dean Steve Coll et al essentially confirmed all the doubts that I raised six months ago.
Again, in the spirt of full disclosure, there is one thing that bugs me about the reference to me in the report, the acknowledgment of my “early if speculative” blog posting calling Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s article into question. I’ve encountered this theme—that I was “speculating”—repeatedly since I wrote my blog, and it frustrates me. By framing what I wrote as speculation, a number of mainstream publications, such as the Times and the New Yorker, feel free to ignore my blog when detailing how Erdely’s story was dismantled by press critics.
The supposition that I was “speculating” misses the larger point of what I wrote;the foundation of my argument was not “a hunch,” but basic professionalism. Any decent editor who is honest with him or herself would tell you the same: Even if Jackie’s story turned out to be true, it still shouldn’t have been published as it was reported and written. Will Dana should have sent it back to the editor and writer with a note saying: “You don’t have this story. Go back and do your jobs.” It was not “speculative” to say that the story should not have been published without further reporting; it was Journalism 101, the kind of thing that they teach (I assume) in the first couple weeks at Columbia Journalism School. And I didn’t have to have access to all the fact-checker’s notes and interview transcripts to know that; any reader with some small degree of journalism experience could know that—and, frankly, should have.
My suspicion that Jackie’s story was not true was based on the idea that if it were, Rolling Stone would have shown us the reporting to back it up. Since Rolling Stone did not, one had to conclude that the evidence to support Jackie did not exist.
There. Got that off my chest.
I want to go through a few specific things that I jotted down as I read the CJS report, and then I’d like to conclude with where I think it does fail in one very important way.
1) In Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s public statement, she makes no apology to the fraternity she defamed. I imagine she feared, or was told, that doing so might have legal implications. I doubt that that would be the case; whether that was her intention or not, she obviously harmed the fraternity. There can be no doubt about that. So it is particularly galling that instead of apologizing to people on whom she inflicted tangible harm, she apologizes to ” any victims of sexual assault who may feel fearful as a result of my article.” What about people whom she falsely accused of rape?
Rubin Erdely owes Phi Psi and its members—probably all fraternity members, frankly—an apology. That she refuses to acknowledge her obligation says something about her character.
It also suggests that, despite everything, she still believes, whether Jackie’s story is true or not—it obviously isn’t—some larger truth about rape culture and the predilections of fraternity members. Seen in this light, her refusal to apologize actually strengthens the fraternity’s lawsuit; it reinforces the idea that Sabrina Rubin Erdely really, really doesn’t like fraternities—and was determined to portray their members as rapists.
2) The Columbia report notes that Rolling Stone refused to waive its attorney client privilege and give Coll access to their lawyers. The tautological reason Rolling Stone gave: That to do so would be waiving attorney-client privilege. (Get it? They wouldn’t waive attorney-client privilege because that would mean waiving attorney-client privilege.)
The magazine’s lack of transparency casts doubt on virtually all of what Rolling Stone has to say in its own defense.
Here’s why: With a story this sensitive, good libel lawyers—and I assume Rolling Stone has very good lawyers—are, or should be, very much in the mix. On sensitive stories, they become something akin to editors with a law degree. You simply could not publish such an accusatory article without having it very heavily lawyered; there is, or ought to be, a lot of discussion between the editor-in-chief and the magazine’s libel lawyer(s). That Rolling Stone won’t disclose their lawyers’ advice suggests that the magazine did not take it, or did the least amount possible to satisfy legal concerns. After all, if the lawyers argued that the magazine had done excellent work and was on safe ground publishing the story, disclosing that information would likely have discouraged any potential lawsuits—like the one Phi Psi is now pursuing against the magazine.
In other words: It’s highly likely that Rolling Stone had a prepublication warning that this story had significant problems—and published the story anyway. Because they knew it was a sexy story, and they were willing to take the risk.
3) Sabrina Rubin Erdely claims that she spoke to Jackie several days after publication and just happened to ask her, “Oh, by the way, what was Drew’s real name? You can tell me now.” [I’m paraphrasing, of course.] And that when Jackie fudged on the spelling of Drew’s last name, Erdeley suddenly got suspicious.
This anecdote is, I suspect, a load of hooey. There were, after all, many, many pre-publication indicators that Jackie was not a reliable source, yet Erdely never got suspicious then. Jackie won’t return calls, she threatens to back out of the story, Jackie’s mother won’t return calls…. Let me tell you something: If you have a source who’s claiming she was gang-raped, and tells you to talk to her mother for corroboration, and the mother won’t return your phone calls—you get nervous fast.
It’s incomprehensible to me that there could be red flags like this and only now, post-publication, when Jackie misspells Drew’s last name, does her spider sense start to tingle. (It’s worth noting, by the way, that the reason Jackie would have claimed she didn’t know the exact spelling of Drew’s last name would be to hide the fact that there was no Drew, and make Drew’s non-existence harder to establish—a fine example of Jackie’s calculated deception to keep her horrible fable from coming apart.)
Erdely claims that she asked Jackie this question at this point because Drew was “at-large” and “dangerous.” That claim does not pass the smell test. For one thing, this would have been the case pre-publication as well as post. For another, in the wake of the 2.7 million readers Erdely’s story attracted, it’s implausible that Drew was sitting back is his frat boy lair planning his next gang rape. This is not Silence of the Lambs we’re talking about.
I think Erdely told this story to try to look like she was being responsible and thorough, even if only after the fact. My bet is that she was probably reacting to something—post-publication phone calls from skeptics? my blog post? the reporting of T. Rees Shapiro or Hanna Rosin?—that rattled her, and she was starting to panic, and trying to confirm what she should have confirmed (or not) before the article was published.
Which is another way of saying that I don’t think Jackie is the only liar in this matter.
4) Sabrina Rubin Erdely is a terrible journalist. This harsh but inescapable truth is born out again and again throughout the Coll report, though its authors are kind enough not to connect the dots. (Not me.) There are many reasons, but the most basic one is that Erdely knew what story she wanted to write before she wrote it—and her faith in her own righteousness blinded her to everything that could have prevented this disaster.
More on the subject of Rubin Erdely’s terrible journalism later.
5) The one true thing about Jackie’s story…is that it disproves Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s story. Erdely used Jackie to argue that UVa is indifferent to allegations of sexual assault. But as we know now, the university took Jackie’s story very seriously. Jackie spoke with a dean who subsequently checked up on her multiple times; was offered counseling; was offered the opportunity of pursuing the matter through university channels or through the police; and was recommended to a rape survivor group. Then, she was taken seriously when she claimed that she’d been hit in the head with a bottle, although there was ample reason to suggest that this incident was fabricated. Does this sound like official indifference to you?
Reading between the lines, it’s hard not to to think that the officials at UVa who heard Jackie’s story didn’t believe it—and yet they took it seriously, handled it professionally, and did what they could given that their complainant refused to file a complaint. Yet they are maligned by Erdely as indifferent, uncaring.
So why did Rubin Erdely choose as her avatar of official indifference a woman whose story actually disproved her thesis? Because Jackie’s tale of gang rape was just too sexy not to lead with.
6) Sabrina Rubin Erdely is a terrible journalist, part II.
In the Columbia report, Erdely explains that if she had spoken to the three friends whom Jackie encountered on the night in question—as she should have—and the three friends contradicted Jackie’s story—as, of course, they later would—she would have instantly abandoned Jackie and gone in search of a rape victim free of those “contradictions.”
As the report puts it:
If Erdely had learned Ryan’s account that Jackie had fabricated their conversation, she would have changed course immediately, to research other UVA rape cases free of such contradictions, she said later.
(Note how the word “contradictions” is actually here a euphemism for “lies.”)
Let’s consider that for a moment, because it sounds virtuous, but isn’t. Sabrin Rubin Erdely started with a thesis and went in search of someone—and some place—that fit her thesis. She found Jackie and the University of Virginia. But, she admits, if she had discovered that Jackie was a liar, it wouldn’t have caused her to question her thesis. (To which the only response is, if that doesn’t cause you to question your thesis, what would?) Instead, she’d just go find another person who would better conform to what she already wanted to write.
And if that person proved to be a fraud as well, she’d find another…and another…
I am not a lawyer, so I don’t know if Phi Psi has a strong case against Erdely and Rolling Stone. But if the famed “actual malice” test—you are intending to defame someone—is relevant, it seems to me that Erdely has just given the fraternity some explicit evidence of such malice. Even if her “victim” was a liar, Erdely has no doubt: Frat boys are rapists.
7) There are significant discrepancies between Erdely’s recollection of the editing process and those of her editor, Sean Woods; these are not easily explained by differing interpretations or foggy memories. At least one of these people is lying.
8) As the Columbia report points out, Sabrina Rubin Erdely is a terrible journalist (part III).
Consider her outreach to the fraternity officers; she crafts emails that are deliberately vague and essentially impossible to rebut; they suggest that Erdely did not want Jackie’s story to be disproved.
“I’ve become aware of allegations of gang rape that have been made against the UVA chapter of Phi Kappa Psi,” Erdely wrote. “Can you comment on those allegations?”
That is a deeply and deliberately dishonest way to ask for comment about a specific incident; the recipient of that email couldn’t possibly comment on such a vague question. It makes me think that Erdely wanted to make it look like the fraternity was stonewalling, because that would reinforce her caricature of fraternities as sinister and predatory. And, of course, because she wanted Jackie’s story to be true; she had a lot to gain if it were.
9) Sabrina Rubin Erdely saw what she wanted to see.
All of Jackie’s dissembling—her failure to return phone calls, her evasiveness, her refusal to name names, her threat to pull out of the story—were behaviors that should have set off alarms in any good reporter. Not Erdely. To her, Jackie’s “behavior seemed very consistent with a victim of trauma.” In other words: Every single thing that Jackie did that would, to most reporters, suggest she was an unreliable source, actually confirmed to Erdely that Jackie was a reliable source. In that scenario, there is literally nothing that Jackie could do that would not then be evidence of her credibility. If she swore on a Bible that she was lying, it would only prove how “traumatized” she was.
10) Sabrina Rubin Erdely is not just a horrible reporter, she is a deeply dishonest one. According to the Coll report, two sources in the story publicly claimed that they did not say that Erdely attributes to them.
Allen W. Groves, the University dean of students, and Nicole Eramo, an assistant dean of students, separately wrote to the authors of this report that the story’s account of their actions was inaccurate.
Those claims are detailed in a footnote in the report; they should not be a footnote, because they speak to the credibility of Erdely’s reporting throughout. But they are worth acknowledging here.
Eramo’s letter to Coll is long and worth reading; this, to me, is the most telling section.
….contrary to the quote attributed to me in Rolling Stone, I have never called the University of Virginia “the rape school,” nor have I ever suggested — either professionally or privately — that parents would not “want to send their daughter” to UVA.
Those were enormously damning quotes when they were published, essential to Erdely’s argument, and at the time, they struck me as remarkable. A university employee would say these things? That didn’t feel right. I believe Eramo; at the least, Erdely misquoted her; at the worst, Erdely made up quotes.
Allen Groves wrong a long and detailed letter in which he defends himself against Erdely’s portrayal of him as glib and dismissive about the fact that UVa was being investigated by the Department of Education for Title IX violations. You should read the letter; it’s fascinating. But the most telling part is when he recommends interested parties to watch a video of the meeting that Erdely describes in a way that really does make Groves sound like an ass.
Let me tell you something: When someone who is written about as being dismissive of rape encourages people to watch a video of the incident in question, he’s probably been presented unfairly. I believe Groves.
(And by the way: A fact-checker should have watched that video and pushed back against the way Erdely characterized what Groves said and how he said it. A hundred bucks says that didn’t happen.)
10) Sabrina Rubin Erdely is a terrible journalist (part IV) who puts the blame for her mistakes on other people.
“In retrospect,” she tells Coll about not calling the alleged rapists, “I wish somebody had pushed me harder.”
No. Just…no. You’re accusing people of rape. You don’t need an editor to tell you to get their side of the story. You need a conscience.
11) Managine editor Will Dana’s lack of oversight is hard to explain—and excuse.
He tells Coll that he did not know of the holes in reporting, editing and fact-checking the piece contained when it arrived at his desk. It is incomprehensible to me that a managing editor of a national magazine could be publishing a story of this gravity—containing such horrific allegations—without being deeply involved in it every step of the way. Even if he weren’t: All you had to do is read the damn thing to know that it was ridden with problems.
And again: The lawyers must have pointed out these problems. So I’m again forced to wonder if people are being honest here. Even if Dana didn’t know about the deeply flawed editorial process when the story landed in his in-box—which he should have—he must have known about it at some point.
But, to be fair, the fact that he actually went ahead and published the story suggests that he is telling the truth—that he was completely asleep at the wheel.
12) I have seen a lot of published fretting—not just in Erdely’s statement—about whether this fiasco will discourage victims of rape from going public. This sentiment, which I have seen far more of than I have seen empathy for the people Erdely falsely accused of rape, strikes me as odd. A horrific story of rape, which, following its publication in a national magazine, had an enormous impact, is discovered to be a fraud. And the response is: Well, we should all worry about the potential impact on rape victims’ ability to come forward to speak the truth.
I have a different take: Let’s agree that if you don’t lie and claim that you were gang-raped as part of a fraternity initation ritual, you’ll be treated with respect. And if people treat you disrespectfully based simply on past frauds, then shame on them.
But in the meantime, let’s remember that the only known victims of this story are members of the Phi Psi fraternity, fraternity members in general and the University of Virginia. These individuals and institutions suffered in tangible ways; you might even say that some of the fraternity members were “traumatized.” The argument that the people we should worry about first are rape victims could actually—if I may borrow a phrase from Sabrina Rubin Erdely—re-traumatize them.
13) Rolling Stone should not have taken down Rubin Erdely’s article. Doing so doesn’t feel like an attempt to do the right thing or correct the record; it feels like an attempt to whitewash history. Kind of like when Vogue took its profile of Syria’s absolutely lovely first lady (“A Rose in the Desert“) off its website….
I’m wrapping up here, so thank for your patience, and if you can, bear with me just a little bit longer.
Remember how I said that I thought Columbia made one big, fundamental mistake?
Here it is.
The only part of Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s article closely examined by Columbia was the lede, which detailed Jackie’s incredible story of gang rape.
Columbia should, in fact, have closely examined the entirety of Erdely’s article.
Because ultimately, this article was not really about Jackie. Take a pencil, lop the Jackie story off the top, and the article could have run pretty much as it was.
The article was about the existence of rape culture and university indifference to said culture.
Jackie’s story was supposed to be proof of that, and Jackie’s story was a lie. But no one at Rolling Stone—not Erdely, not Dana, not Woods, not Wenner—seems to have considered just the possibility that maybe, must maybe, they were wrong about this.
Jackie’s lies do not in and of themselves disprove Rubin Erdely’s rape-culture thesis.
But if you examined the rest of the article with the same critical eye that you examine Jackie’s story, you’ll find that it, too, is deeply deceptive. “A Rape on Campus” is fashioned on selective presentation of material, the use of bogus or discredited statistics, quotes that are either fabricated or taken out of context, unconfirmed allegations, anonymous sources, the deliberate exclusion of evidence contrary to the author’s thesis, and material that is either fabricated or presented in a way that is so profoundly misleading it can only be evidence of incompetence or dishonesty. (The multiple verses of a UVa fight song, for example, that nobody at UVa has actually heard.)
Sabrina Rubin Erdely was not first and foremost trying to obtain justice for Jackie; that was incidental. Her intention was to prove the existence of rape culture and to shame and ostracize those whom she fervently believed participated in it.
When you know how Rubin Erdely went about her work, you are forced to conclude that she failed, that the rest of her story is as unbelievable as Jackie’s story—it’s just concocted in a slicker way. In the ongoing debate about sexual assault on campus, we must remember this.
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Blogger’s note: I’ve made some small tweaks and grammatical corrections since my original post.
365 Responses
4/7/2024 4:48 pm
Thanks Richard. That’s a lot to digest. But I’m big on accountability and my favorite passage is this one:
10) Sabrina Rubin Erdely is a terrible journalist (part IV) who puts the blame for her mistakes on other people.
“In retrospect,” she tells Coll, “I wish somebody had pushed me harder.”
No. Just…no. You’re accusing people of rape. You don’t need an editor to tell you to get their side of the story. You need a conscience.
4/7/2024 5:03 pm
Any chance you could provide an analysis of Erdely’s article “The Rape of Petty Officer Blumer”? As a Navy Veteran it always struck me as “off” and after reading your original analysis of the UVA article I revisited it and noticed the similarities immediately. There’s a new analysis on RedState but I’d love to hear a journalists/editors viewpoint.
4/7/2024 5:04 pm
Richard-
Thank you so much. I appreciate your insight into this journalistic mess. The harm inflicted on the fraternity was certainly avoidable, and you have confirmed that Erdely is a terrible journalist. Her apology was laughable, as was Rolling Stone’s decision to take no action.
I am not big on lawsuits but, in this case, I can completely understand why the fraternity wants to bring action against Rolling Stone. I certainly won’t read the magazine again (except to see which advertisers I should be boycotting).
Thank you again for your insights and analysis.
4/7/2024 5:05 pm
Great article. Please proofread one more time though to correct the typos. I’d like to forward this on to others.
4/7/2024 5:09 pm
Working on that, RRR. Sorry-there’s never enough time.
4/7/2024 5:17 pm
I’m glad you presented the statements in footnote 4 that Erdley made up and attributed quotes to people in her story. This would actually put her in the Jayson Blair-Stephen Glass category of fabulist, and not just a lazy reporter with idealogical blinders on.
4/7/2024 5:21 pm
My biggest takeaway was that SRE really didn’t want to let this one slip away. Wherever you read that she was *about* to check a fact that would have sunk the article (e.g., contact Jackie’s mom) and Jackie pulled back, SRE let the matter go.
Not “re-traumatizing her” seems like a cover for “don’t pull on the line TOO hard and yank out the hook from my Pulitzer.”
4/7/2024 5:41 pm
Excellent analysis:
1. Coll should not have put that comment about “speculative” blog posting in there. I didn’t think it was speculative…it was the gut reaction of someone who has been a journalist for a long time.
2. I think the fact Rolling Stone wouldn’t let Coll and company see the legal advice they got from their attorneys is very telling…I would not be surprised at all if RS got legal advice warning them not to publish the article.
4/7/2024 5:42 pm
“Jackie is a liar, and we shouldn’t forget that. She does not escape responsibility because, as I heard managing editor Will Dana say on NPR the the other day, she’s “a girl.” She’s a college junior, a young woman, a legal adult, and of an age where, if you called her a girl, many women of her age would take offense. Or let’s put it this way: She is old enough to know better, and to suggest otherwise is sexist.”
Yes. One thousand times, yes.
Women have fought too hard, for too long, to be taken seriously and accepted as equals; we cannot accept this blithe dismissal of a competent, educated, adult college woman as “just a girl”.
If young men of her age are going to treated as adults who are fully accountable for their words and actions, then arguing that “…but it’s different for girls“ is nothing but a step back into the bad old days.
4/7/2024 5:49 pm
As for the legal involvement, according to Reason (this quote attributed to SRE is almost certainly available multiple places — I just picked it from there):
“I could address many of [the questions] individually . . . but by dwelling on this, you’re getting sidetracked,” she wrote in an e-mail response to The Post’s inquiry. “As I’ve already told you, the gang-rape scene that leads the story is the alarming account that Jackie — a person whom I found to be credible — told to me, told her friends, and importantly, what she told the UVA administration, which chose not to act on her allegations in any way — i.e., the overarching point of the article. THAT is the story: the culture that greeted her and so many other UVA women I interviewed, who came forward with allegations, only to be met with indifference.”
She added, “I think I did my due diligence in reporting this story; RS’s excellent editors, fact-checkers, and lawyers all agreed.”
SRE is either lying outright about the lawyers or someone is deliberately obfuscating their involvement, as you have suggested.
Also (again from Reason):
“I could address many of [the questions] individually . . . but by dwelling on this, you’re getting sidetracked,” she wrote in an e-mail response to The Post’s inquiry. “As I’ve already told you, the gang-rape scene that leads the story is the alarming account that Jackie — a person whom I found to be credible — told to me, told her friends, and importantly, what she told the UVA administration, which chose not to act on her allegations in any way — i.e., the overarching point of the article. THAT is the story: the culture that greeted her and so many other UVA women I interviewed, who came forward with allegations, only to be met with indifference.”
Where exactly is the proof that she spoke to all these other women that she alleges she did?
4/7/2024 5:50 pm
Oops…
Sorry about the screw-up immediately above… still a few bugs in the system.
4/7/2024 5:51 pm
SCUZZED
4/7/2024 5:52 pm
The journalistic response to the CJS report reminds me of witness testimony in front of professional accreditation boards (medical in particular). Often the witness has more loyalty to the person under examination than to the profession.
Thus they are willing to say “yes this step should have been followed”, but no one is willing to draw a conclusion or contextualize exactly what occurred.
Except you. Great summary, especially pointing out the UVA employee mischaracterizations. Since those errors had nothing to do with Jackie it reveals their excuse of concern for her as thin gruel. Accepting such thin gruel as definitive means they were looking for the easiest way out.
4/7/2024 5:58 pm
thank you.
and thank you for raising the initial doubts. without your post who knows if this would have been debunked. amazing to think about.
4/7/2024 6:04 pm
richard: not a lawyer, but waiving attorney client privilege would open the discussions to anyone suing RS. Once waived, it can’t be put back in the bottle, nor limited to those you wish it to be limited to.
4/7/2024 6:11 pm
Great article Richard.
On a side note, the “actual malice” test only applies to public figures. For the general public, the test is actually much lower, somewhere between negligence and wilful indifference to the truthfulness of your allegations.
I’m not sure how much in damages the fraternity will be able to prove, but I think they have enough to at least make it very ugly for Rolling Stone and to force a reasonable settlement.
4/7/2024 6:14 pm
Very well said, and well written. Any shred of sympathy I had for Ms. Erdely went out the window after reading CJS report. It’s clear that her main error was looking for evidence that fit her narrative, yet claims her errors were a result of her compassion for Jackie. She then attempts to diffuse this blame among her colleagues. I learned a valuable lesson long ago that when you fuck up, even if there are mitigating circumstances, etc., take the blame and apologize with sincerity.
4/7/2024 6:15 pm
I’m sorry you spoke well of the CJS report. Consider your own point 3, concerning the silly presentation in which Erdely, post-publication, valiantly tries, once again, to learn Drew’s name from Jackie, finally succeeding.
The CJS report (deliberately) fudges the time line. But based on the date they state, this conversation happened two days after your own original skeptical post appeared. Presumably, the time line is fudged so readers won’t put two and two together concerning the likely motivation for Erdely’s new round of questioning about Drew’s name.
When the CJS describes this new line of questioning, they simply accept Erdely’s self-serving account of what happened, for reasons which go unstated. They then present a silly, cinematic story about the way Erdely suddenly stopped typing, in alarm, when she realized that Jackie didn’t even know how to spell Drew’s last name.
There’s no way the CJS trio could possibly know that this happened. They are treating Erdely the same way Erdely treated Jackie. They are simply accepting her story on faith, after which they type it up in compelling, cinematic form.
My diagnosis? These people are a great deal like Erdely. This is what insider “journalists” are like in a post-journalistic age.
Under the circumstances, the CJS 3 wrote the least aggressive denunciation of Rolling Stone that could have been written. This was the guild serving its colleagues. Reread that silly cinematic story about Erdely’s sudden concern as she spoke with Jackie and you will see the soul of this post-journalistic beast.
The CJS writers avoid everything that is truly problematic in this ridiculous mess. Don’t be fooled by their criticisms of Rolling Stone. Under the circumstances, this was the softest report that could have been produced.
4/7/2024 6:22 pm
Slight quibble: SRE’s failure to apologize to Phi Psi doesn’t really tell us anything about her character, and doesn’t indicate that she still believes, in some larger sense, that she’s right about fraternity culture.
More than anything, what it tells us is that Rolling Stone’s lawyers are representing her and the magazine jointly, and Rolling Stone has agreed to indemnify her in the event of a civil judgment. They will not do either of those things if she goes rogue and admits fault to potential plaintiffs in ways that could implicate the magazine.
Don’t disagree that an apology is owed. But it’s a lot to ask someone with limited employment prospects, and kids and a family to support, to put herself at risk to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
4/7/2024 6:42 pm
Richard Bradley, I think that Jann Wenner’s attempt to blame “Jackie” as a fabulist is extremely misguided. This assumes that Jackie is a full-fledged rational actor, and we really don’t know that this is the case.
If someone (anyone) providing personal accounts to a journalist is essentially borderline, and/or a pathological liar, that is, especially disturbed, the notion that journalists and publishers can and should blame them for being bad and deceptive sources doesn’t make a lot of sense.
This is a hypothesis in this particular UVa case, but such ought to be taken into consideration. This is why, in hindsight, the Columbia Journalism reporters pointed out that a mere interview of “Jackie’s” friends, would have begun to cast cold light on her own testimony.
In a world where it’s possible to have persons designated as pseudo-Neurotic Schizophrenic (for example), Wenner’s complaint doesn’t really hold up.
4/7/2024 6:44 pm
Man. That was a great post by R. bradley. Would say: if Erderly hadnt been so eager tofix the facts around a policy downing memo style\ gwb iraq war style, she would have a great lead: one student’s con of a University community. Instead…this fiasco !
4/7/2024 6:50 pm
No one really addressed the cheap shot by erderly in linking the story to Hannah Graham. Felt like a throw in to an already long and explosive piece. So in that, fair to say the RS piece missed not just one story but attached itself for credibility to another far more tragic one. Or a story on Longo and the seasons of a police chief.
Missed the boat by an oceans length.
4/7/2024 6:58 pm
This is the best dissection of the CSJ report I’ve come across. That piece about the dean of Students is particularly damning. It proves that Erdely is unquestionably acting maliciously, with no regard for the truth. It was a vicious smear. I hope the Dean take legal action.
The fact that Rolling Stone says they will continue to use her says much about them.
4/7/2024 7:01 pm
Thanks, Richard!
Kind of rough on SRE, but there it is.
4/7/2024 7:02 pm
A few other irksome details:
The alarm bell for Ms. Rubin Erdely just happened to go off in her head the day after the Virginia attorney general hired an independent investigator who “pledged an aggressive probe of the incident.”
It’s surprising to learn that during a six week stalemate that didn’t succeed in producing Drew’s last name, Mr. Dana “said he was not even aware that Rolling Stone did not know the man’s full name and had not confirmed his existence.” Then confusing three paragraphs later when the CJS report stated, “But when Jackie became unresponsive to Erdely in late October, Woods and Dana gave in.”
Fact Checking: ‘Above My Pay Grade’ in bold. That phrase will likely haunt Ms. McPherson for awhile.
4/7/2024 7:02 pm
hi richard. a search of allen groves’ foia request as referenced in his letter shows it is closed as of 3/19/15. i wonder if you might be able to reach out to mr. groves to see if he might actually have some insight into sre’s questions to secretary lhamon.
thanks!
4/7/2024 7:16 pm
Mr. Bradley,
My comment as follows, of course.. it’s all over the place.
• I am sorry for (playfully) nagging and (playfully) rushing you on Twitter 😉 - thanks for replying to my tweets. I am glad you took your time, your reply/statement above, regarding CJR “report” is awesome.
You have to understand: the whole time I was reading CJR’s report; in the back of my mind I was thinking;
“I hope Rich is reading this sh_t!”
and
“I so can’t wait to read what Rich Bradley is going to say this half assed report”
• CJR Report
I call CJR’s report half assed because IMO, CJR’s report Is
*Shrugs*
Don’t get me wrong; I appreciate CJR for accepting RS’s offer (although I am suspicious more than ever about the whole “offer” or “thing”) I feel like we, the people who followed the case are still owed something? Owed What? I don’t know. I just expected more from CJR. I guess?
• We, as in the community or those of us who followed this case who are not a part of the main stream media and are everyday people; we got more answers from you-on this blog, than we did CJR “report”.
•You have every right to be credited and want to be credited.
I want to shout this from roof tops for you and take out Adwords to advertise because I understand your frustration:
(I’m sure my punctuation is not proper *gasp*)
Editor in Chief for Worth Magazine and Fabulous “Shots In The Dark” blogger, Mr. Richard Bradley, was the first in the field of Journalism’ to question Rolling Stone’s, “A Rape On Campus”
(No offense, I know l questioned, “grab it’s mother fu’ing leg” along with quotes Jackie was quoted in RS article, it did not sit well with me, that’s another comment for a different comment post)
I understand media outlets such as Reason, NY Times and Wash Post questioned the RS article (around the same time) and conducted their own subsequent interviews with the parties as well as interviewed friends of Jackie, however, do you think they would have if you (Rich) were not the FIRST to ask flat out: Is this a hoax? Is the Rolling Stone Story True?
• You should know; your subsequent posts you posted regarding RS (Liz Seccuro etc) rather they were intentional or not-gave people like myself (the public etc) more answers than the CJR report did. Your posts were unique because you are an editor and someone who has NO agenda and you never made this about Politics-they did.
..For that..
I just want to thank you: Mr. Bradley, from a reader’s perspective for questioning something that should never have been published in the first place. Don’t you ever hesitate to question anything. Ever.
On second thought; like the title of this post says;”In the end, It’s All About Rape Culture - or the Lack Thereof” maybe it is not so bad we the everyday people did not learn anything we did not already know regarding, CJR “report”, instead, hopefully they learned something.
Respectfully,
Amia
@MissAmiaSays
4/7/2024 7:18 pm
Thank you sir.
- CS
4/7/2024 7:25 pm
I’m taking the liberty of cutting and pasting the 12:20pm comment made by commenter “stinkfoot” on the previous post, since I think it was an important point:
/ / /
Somewhat off topic but I was annoyed by the narrative-journalism form of the Columbia report itself. As one example, in describing SRE’s “come-to-Jesus” moment after publication, the report says
“Jackie gave Erdely a name. But as the reporter typed, her fingers stopped. Jackie was unsure how to spell the lifeguard’s last name. Jackie speculated aloud about possible variations.”
Did SRE spoon-feed this language to them? It has the same lifetime-drama feel of her own writing. Do we need to see the image of her fingers suddenly hesitating on the keyboard? Why waste space in a professional report with this?
Moreover, the report’s assertion that SRE independently came to doubt the veracity of the story after publication is beyond credibility. It’s obvious that third-party scrutiny of this story pushed RS into retraction. The likelihood that SRE would have independently chosen to challenge her own story, after publication, is zero.
I’m curious how much consultation and input Rolling Stone had into the final Columbia report. It reads as though it was heavily vetted.
/ / /
4/7/2024 7:29 pm
“Let’s agree that if you don’t lie and claim that you were gang-raped as part of a fraternity initation ritual, you’ll be treated with respect. And if people treat you disrespectfully, then shame on them.”
This is a very good point, and I would elaborate it further.
One of the most destructive things that the media (and others) are now doing is pretending that Jackie might, after all, be a rape victim, in service of the notion that to say otherwise would deter actual rape victims from coming forward.
But this attitude is perversely wrong. Jackie’s story fell apart not because she was a rape victim, but because she was not. Genuine rape victims and their stories have nothing in common with Jackie and her fabrication. If the media would simply be honest on this point, it would make it perfectly clear to genuine rape victims that they needn’t fear that their stories would fall apart as Jackie’s did precisely because their stories would be based in reality. It’s easy to shoot down an absurd confabulation; it’s very hard indeed to discredit a story based in hard fact.
4/7/2024 7:30 pm
Final thought…getting things wrong is easy and so is making things up. Erderly took the path of least resistance and most sloppiness . It isnt uncommon…that may be Coll’s huge point - that journalism 101 isnt even followed much and advocacy IS or advocacy posing as reporting, which is dishonest. There are many cases of getting it wrong. The difference is the WHY. Erderly is clear - she had something to say, overlooked the evidence contradicting or avoided it all together , and then said it didnt matter (the botched interviews proved that, with the response about how she thought fraternities acted, a real cartoon version). Again i wasnt in a fratetnity, i went to uva too and i wasnt in that scene. I had no good friends from there and while the stereotype in my head never broke those guys were pretty normal. Some of them werent, but like anywhere most were. Not my scene but we all occupied similar spaces. But maybe it should have broken down. A lot of people joined just to have a place to live while at school.
I can think of a few stories where reporters got it dead wrong. Or made a similar mistake, convicting someone because the story they told fit but noy because the facts supported it. Another example in what not to do.
4/7/2024 7:31 pm
Is it just me or did anyone roll their eyes when reading the CJR “report” Rs staff actually believed Jackie was a “whistle blower” ?
Again, common sense. The CJR report suggested Sabrina Rubin Erdely had doubts, however, they still plublished.
4/7/2024 7:36 pm
Genuine rape victims and their stories have nothing in common with Jackie and her fabrication. If the media would simply be honest on this point, it would make it perfectly clear to genuine rape victims that they needn’t fear that their stories would fall apart as Jackie’s did precisely because their stories would be based in reality. It’s easy to shoot down an absurd confabulation; it’s very hard indeed to discredit a story based in hard fact.
The objection doesn’t make much sense to protect rape victims. But if you switch the class at risk to rape hysterics the risk becomes quite clear. And so to me the reason we keep hearing this argument is obvious.
4/7/2024 7:42 pm
Until Mr. Bradley on Nov. 24, nobody involved did a reality check. Rubin Erdely’s account of the supposed gang rape on broken glass is hilariously unlikely.
Our culture needs to emphasize the concept of the reality check. When I started reading Malcolm Gladwell’s articles a decade ago, for example, it became obvious to me that whether or not the New Yorker expensively fact checks them, nobody, from Gladwell to David Remnick, reality checks Gladwell’s output.
4/7/2024 7:45 pm
“More on the subject of Rubin Erdely’s terrible journalism later.”
Promise us Mr Bradley?
4/7/2024 7:50 pm
I find myself agreeing with Bob Somerby above on the point of Ederly’s supposed attack of doubt over Jackie’s spelling of Monahan and how it’s treated in the report. Does anybody really believe we should just take this story at face value on Ederly’s word? Why do the authors of the report repeat it so credulously? I get that they don’t want to call a colleague a liar, but for God’s sake, if you’re going to go after someone for their stupid credulity, don’t engage in stupid credulity when doing so. A simple “Ederly *said that* blah, blah, blah” would go miles to make them seem like they weren’t born yesterday, and weren’t going to pretend to be.
4/7/2024 7:52 pm
excellent piece. The best of any that have attempted to deconstruct the Columbia report, which IMHO failed to do what you actually did.
An idea for you is to write a book. This story, of which you have the pulse more than any other writer, is as important as the Duke fraud.
I’m still blown away that RS has chosen to circle the wagons and not leech the problems. I can’t tell if this is arrogance, legalese, or inertia.
4/7/2024 8:00 pm
As an example of the kind of reality check that should have derailed the article before publication, here’s the fifth comment on your original 11/24/14 post:
Steve Sailer
11/27/2014 4:20 am
Sorry to keep coming back to this, but I’ve done some more thinking and here’s where the story falls apart: pitch darkness _and_ broken glass on the floor. The glass table is smashed, but nobody turns on the light to see what happened or where the broken glass is? Instead, each man, having heard the glass table get smashed, still gets down on the floor covered with shards of broken glass, risking not only his hands and knees, but also pulling out an even more personal part of his anatomy, one that he only has one of.
Really?
4/7/2024 8:08 pm
Outstanding, this: “But if you examined the rest of the article with the same critical eye that you examine Jackie’s story, you’ll find that it, too, is deeply deceptive. It depends on selective presentation of material, the use of bogus or discredited statistics, quotes that are either fabricated or taken out of context, unconfirmed allegations, anonymous sources, the deliberate exclusion of evidence contrary to the author’s thesis, and material that is either fabricated or presented in a way that is so profoundly misleading it can only be evidence of dishonesty or incompetence. (The multiple verses of a UVa fight song, for example, that nobody at UVa has actually heard.) ”
Amen, amen, amen. Take away the Jackie part completely and you STILL have a “journalist” who isn’t doing even the barest minimum of basic fact checking, who is deliberately slanting the truth for maximum impact on her predetermined thesis, cherry-picking quotes, selectively disregarding exculpatory evidence and quite possibly fabricating details to boost the breathless melodramatic appeal of the ‘based-on-real-events’ made-for-Lifetime Movie Network script she really seems to be more suited to writing.
The take-downs of Erdely’s previous work are on their way, already. Several people have commented that her military rape story was riddled with some massively embarrassing errors which made it clear that she hadn’t bothered to do any research at all on the quirky procedural differences in the Military justice system.
And her RS fact checkers seemed to have been permanently out to lunch on that story as well, so even if you only examine those tangentially related details she proffers which actually can be verified, her story has so many howlers in it - her erroneous claim of the time limitations on the blood test for roofies is one of the more glaring examples - that they render the rest of the stuff we are required to take on faith in her professional competency & personal integrity alone completely & irremediably suspect.
She was bending facts to suit her pre-canned agenda-driven narrative & hoped nobody in RS’ readership would notice long before she met Jackie Coakley and she was obviously doing it with her fact checkers’ & editors’ blessing back then too. RS certainly can’t blame their deceptiveness on their selective reticence about ‘retraumatizing’ the alleged rape victim whose ‘trauma’ they were intending to blast around the world for profit on that story too!
So yeah, Sabrina’s a mess, an absolute, certifiable mess. But it’s quite obvious that she didn’t turn into a bad journalist overnight once she came under the spell of the amoral sociopath Jackie Coakley, and the same goes for her singularly incompetent fact-checkers at the magazine. As horrible a person as Jackie manifestly is, they cannot blame their own independent badness on the young woman they are today claiming is a preternaturally good manipulator who led otherwise ethical & meticulous journalists astray & ‘forced’ them to defame innocent people in pursuit of profitable magazine sales & lucrative website clicks.
4/7/2024 8:17 pm
Anna Merlan on Jezebel:
“Review Shows Everything that Went Wrong in Rolling Stone’s UVA Story”
Rolling Stone first began walking back the piece in December, saying it had identified “discrepancies” in the story told to Rubin Erdely by Jackie, the UVA student who said she had been gang-raped by members of the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity. (At the same time, I apologized for defending Erdely’s reporting; then, as now, I was wrong to do so, and wrong to castigate the story’s critics.)
4/7/2024 8:21 pm
just how much of our media is a lie :whoa:
4/7/2024 8:23 pm
As you say, Richard:
“Every single thing that Jackie did that would, to most reporters, suggest she was an unreliable source, actually confirmed to Erdely that Jackie was a reliable source.”
… is actually the lede of the CJS report. Emily Renda (who clearly didn’t believe Jackie, but turned her over to Sabrina anyway) warned Sabrina that Jackie’s account might be a little dubious. “Actually”, said Sabrina (paraphrasing), “it’s quite plausible.”
There is not a better example of confirmation bias than that.
4/7/2024 8:53 pm
One more thought:
In light of the clubfooted way she handled the initial skepticism of her article, and in light of her recent comical “apology” (apologizing to the RS editors who enabled this crap? are you kidding me?), the smartest thing Sabrina did during this whole fiasco is keep her pinhole shut since last December.
4/7/2024 8:56 pm
Alexandra, even if apologizing to Phi Psi would hurt whatever deal Erdely has struck up with RS and thus deserving of sympathy, her apology still speaks loads to the quality of her character, and unwillingness to let go of a rape culture narrative. She starts out the apology by telling us how painful the experience has been for..her. She only reflects on the fear and damage done to sexual assault victims. Like Richard suggests, that’s a punch in the stomach for the people - not just limited to UVA but all people falsely accused of sexual assault - that she glaringly omits from that consideration.
She then devotes a sizeable and truly confusing chunk of the apology speaking of Jackie like she’s an allegory or archetype of a traumatized rape victim. Swaths of the apology from beginning right up to the end imply, and not too subtly, at a commitment to advocacy over journalism and treatment of sexual assault accusers as a special kid-gloves category by journalists. I’m not a professional writer like she is, yet I could still structure an apology that acknowledges having hurt the falsely accused without compromising any legal cooperation with RS. Erdely’s apology, coupled with obvious ongoing lies in the Columbia report, should make everyone livid.
As for the report, I am deeply unsatisfied with its limited scope, and agree that there are still unanswered questions even within that scope. But its worst omission is not confronting a bunch of difficult questions about the uncritical belief in a campus rape epidemic and rape culture which both inspired and permeate the entire RS article.
4/7/2024 9:00 pm
WOW, Richard, you’ve outdone yourself, and kudos for you for being the last “honest” journalist to call a spade a spade!! (I think in the forum of openness, but respectful dialogue, you can say that here with out having your meaning twisted beyond what is said).
Clearly RS and Sabrina Erdely are evil in this article, and their handling of the aftermath: lying, dishonest and malevolent in there efforts.
In addition to your honest and appropriate reaction to the PC handling of this matter, Jackie, RS and, especially, Ms. Erdely, I fervently hope that all the lying, positioning, and gamemanship that RS, Wenner, and their lawyers went through is for not, and that Phi Psi sues them and wins, then allowing RS to be burned to the ground, and disappear forever more.
Lastly, Jackie is a disturbed young woman, and though some disciplining in some form should occur, she clearly is naive and silly in her actions. Her life will be forever scarred by this, and should be given the rank maliciousness and stupidity of her actions.
But, should the US, and it should, yet again allow drawing and quartering, Ms. Sabrina Rubin Erdely should be the first in line for this punishment given her evil, biased, and horribly dishonorable behavior in both the false reporting of this “event”, but also in her complete lack of contrition and understanding of the harm she has done to innocent parties and institutions. In short, may Ms. Rubin live in the own hell of the situation she is condemned to live in for the rest of her life. Hopefully no reputable publication will ever allow her to write for them for the remainder of her rather small and insignificant existence. Only RS, in seeking to “pretend” that nothing was done wrong, will throw her any raw bones to defend themselves against lawsuits. Again, may Phi Psi win, the “own” RS, then burn it to the ground!
4/7/2024 9:14 pm
A sad aspect of Erdely’s approach to journalism is that she acts in exactly the way that women have accused men of acting.
Erdely went out of her way to vilify, objectify and depersonalize to the point of grotesque misrepresentation the humanity of the fraternity men in her story. She seemed, and apparently still seems, driven by the following: when the only tool you have is a hammer, every thing starts to look like a nail. Her hammer is animus toward fraternity men, so she shopped for a potential fact pattern that could help build her case, er, story. That bias has no place in a publication that purports to be an honest arbiter.
Mr. Bradley, you have done a great service in initiating objective, thoughtful analysis and discourse of contemporary issues. Keep bringing in sunlight to disinfect the media.
4/7/2024 9:20 pm
Well worth the wait. And not a word too much.
Thank you sir!
4/7/2024 9:50 pm
Any thoughts on a book on this topic?
4/7/2024 10:01 pm
Agree with Bob Somerby, and before him SitD commenter “stinkfoot”, that CJS’ report pulled its punches.
I was puzzled that no payment from Rolling Stone was agreed for this work apart from “expenses”. SitD commenter “Marshal” explained to me that this was because it would have “compromised their independence” otherwise.
But if one is independent, then one is independent, regardless of who is paying (or not).
Like Somerby, and before him Jack Cashill at American Thinker, pointed out, the people at the Columbia Journalism School were never going to give a hard-hitting exposé of what went wrong. They could not have because they share the same biases (if not the gross unprofessionalism) that accounted for the train wreck of “A Rape on Campus”.
4/7/2024 10:10 pm
I also agree with Somerby. I find it hard to believe that Erdely’s interview methods weren’t scrutinized more carefully. It was already reported elsewhere how biased she was and how she tried to get her interview subjects to say the things that she wanted to hear. You brought this to our attention yourself in your post on 12/15/2014, Alex Pinkleton Faults Sabrina Rubin Erdely:
— Pinkleton noticed a certain tendency in the reporter: “When she asked about my own assault, she kept asking, you know, ‘Did he feed you the drinks, was he keeping tabs of the drinks that night?’ ” Pinkleton told Stelter. “And he wasn’t and that’s something that I had to keep saying over and over again. And I felt that she wasn’t satisfied with my perpetrator as someone who wasn’t clearly monstrous.”
4/7/2024 10:17 pm
is it possible that something is “afoot” has our host been inspired to look the other way?
4/7/2024 10:23 pm
Thanks for the continued well-researched and well articulated perspectives on this shit show of a story. It’s appreciated.
You’re right that in the end it was all about SRE’s own effort portray rape culture in an effort to foment outrage. If you need any more evidence of SRE’s own motivations and the prejudice she brought to this story, just read her tweets from Sept to Nov. Here are two:
“Very encouraged by all the notes I’m getting from men who are sickened by rape & rape culture, and want to be part of the solution.”
“Not to state the obvious, but enlightened men are key to fixing the rape epidemic. It’s so good to have you on board. Let’s recruit more.”
Who can argue with this noble crusade? (Aside from millions who now know she was lying in order to achieve her goal).
Ugh. What a shit show.
4/7/2024 10:34 pm
Also, Sean Woods lied about having found out who the alleged perpetrators of the gang rape were. See the Washington Post article titled “Author of Rolling Stone article on alleged U-Va. rape didn’t talk to accused perpetrators”:
— Sean Woods, who edited the Rolling Stone story, said in an interview that Erdely did not talk to the alleged assailants. “We did not talk to them. We could not reach them,” he said in an interview.
However, he said, “we verified their existence,” in part by talking to Jackie’s friends. “I’m satisfied that these guys exist and are real. We knew who they were.”
4/7/2024 10:35 pm
Sorry. One other comment: I hope someone picks up your focus on the crap that she added to the story that wasn’t from Jackie such as the Rugy Road lyrics and “largely bronzed white privileged” comment. These personal embellishments make me bristle because I’ve walked the halls of the freshman dorms and know that doesn’t come close to describing the students that I meet. SRE isn’t a reporter; She’s a propagandist.
4/7/2024 10:40 pm
As others have pointed out above, the “report” is a hodgepodge.
It reads and looks (down to the cheap graphic, random italics, font color, bullets, and call-out quotes) as the original hodgepodge it “reports” on.
There is no clear introduction, mandate, scope, timetable of events, assumptions, findings, argument, recommendations, etc.
The last part (Looking Forward) is somewhat comprehensible. If you kept the headings only.
If this is what a Dean at the “Journalism School” produces, then SRE really is an ironclad Hemingway reporter. They should have assigned the report to the Dean of the School of the Arts.
Perhaps down the line, in a court brief, we will finally have a breakdown of the facts, responsibility and blame.
4/7/2024 10:41 pm
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but if you read Allen Groves’ letter it appears he’s gearing up to sue, as well. After detailing how SRE completely misrepresented him, he says:
“I can see no basis for the approach that Ms. Erdely took other than bias and malice. The personal and professional damage inflicted as a result was quite real.”
As they say… Get your popcorn ready.
4/7/2024 10:42 pm
I should have mentioned that this is from the letter he wrote to Steve Coll and Sheila Coronel dated March 6, 2015.
4/7/2024 10:42 pm
[…] RICHARD BRADLEY: In the End, It’s All About Rape Culture—or the Lack Thereof. […]
4/7/2024 10:44 pm
Richard -
Why do you think that RollingStone commissioned CSJ to do the report? I’ve been wondering ever since it was announced in December.
Did RS think that they had something to gain from a CSJ report? And now that the report is out, did they gain from it?
The conclusion of the report means that RS had to apologize for part of their wrongdoing, but not all of it. I’m just curious if that was RS’s plan - limit the scope of the criticism. Or did RS think that CSJ would buy their story: that they were compassionate towards Jackie, and subsequently deceived by Jackie, and that their journalistic practices are suitable. Or, is the CSJ report a completely professional affair? I don’t have enough insight to answer on my own.
4/7/2024 10:53 pm
One more thing. In that Washington Post article that I mentioned, “Author of Rolling Stone article on alleged U-Va. rape didn’t talk to accused perpetrators”, there’s also this:
— Woods said that the men were not named in the story because “we were telling Jackie’s story. It’s her story.”
Ah, so the fact that you’re accusing some fraternity members of serious crimes and claiming that the University administration acted indifferently to the victim of those crimes in order to preserve its reputation is irrelevant, because all that you were doing was telling Jackie’s story! Who cares about the facts and letting the accused respond to the accusations against them? We just want to tell this girl’s story!
Jesus, why hasn’t this guy been fired?
4/7/2024 10:56 pm
It is gratifying to know there are still Journalists like you Mr. Bradley that still have logic and reasoning.
Kudos to you and the excellent job you did exposing this. Other news organizations may gloss over the fact that at the start it was only you and a couple others questioning this and being attacked viciously until the Wash Po ran with it.
Those of us paying attention know the truth of it.
4/7/2024 11:01 pm
Megan McArdle has a post up today on Bloomberg View. I commented on it, noting that you were the first journalist to raise red flags on this story, on November 24. I also gave credit to Steve Sailer for taking the baton from you and continuing to raise questions.
For Coll and company to refer to your original blog post as “speculative” is just insulting. It raised a number of legitimate questions as to the veracity of the story, and you were proved correct in your doubts. Personally, I think the authors of the Columbia report owe you an apology.
4/7/2024 11:24 pm
[…] Bradly is the first person to publicly question the whole UVa rape story in Rolling Stone. His comments on the Columbia report commissioned by RS can be found here. […]
4/7/2024 11:32 pm
Job well done my friend. The liberal press today in America is of the same cloth of those who took joy in working at Pravda during Soviet days. They ignore you because you are not a party member.
The truth is Erdely, Dana, Woods, Mcphereson, and Wenner are all worthless filthy trash that in another time would have been drug into the streets, horsewhipped and the lynched. Thank God those days are gone. But one can long for the old days on occasion.
With young children’s lives on the line, those filthy worthless scumbags couldn’t be bothered to do their fucking jobs. Too worthless to lift a finger from their nasty butt holes and check for innocence.
May God Damn that fucking trash to everlasting torture in hell with the likes of Hitler.
4/7/2024 11:47 pm
Drawn and quartering? Some of the comments here have been puke. Strong feelings, people…remember you may becone something you aren’t if you let your emotions get the better of you. Look at sre…that is what did her in. Playing hero, overly sympathetic - Coll said this. This is as much a story about stereotypes as it is about a journalist’S advocacy journalism and a magazine s sucky editing.
But drawn and quartering really? Pretty offensive. I think the Coll report is huge. Its scope is limited but it is an indictment.
Can someone post the transcript for the Coll/Wenner discussion of the report? My sense is they were more damning from what people posted here.
Drawn and quartering…some bloodthirst right there. Erderly and rs didnt write about you and you can tell she is plenty discredited. Id guess the magazine keeps her on as a contractor for a lot of reasons, probably because she will also sue them.
4/7/2024 11:48 pm
Vernon’s comments come in for some scrutiny. Keep that to yourself pal.
4/8/2024 12:13 am
Terrific work here, Richard, and thanks for all your diligence on the matter. I’d like to add a couple points to Bob Somerby’s excellent comment above about the journalism-insider factors at play.
— Even now, the editor’s note above the Columbia report on Rolling Stone’s website that claims, “We agreed that we would cooperate fully, that he and his team could take as much time as they needed and write whatever they wanted.” But that’s not so. As you astutely point out, they hid behind their attorneys to withhold comment about the most critical element of the oversight and approval of the piece. They also insisted that the fact-checker’s name not be used in the report which, incredibly, Columbia agrees to on the nonsensical reason that “she did not have decision-making authority.” I read elsewhere (although I’ll have to look back for the link) that RS withheld their own internal emails about the story — but, in any case, the report contains nothing about those communications which are obviously highly relevant to sorting out the conflicting accounts by various RS staff.
— According to Brian Stelter and others, Columbia handed the final report to RS at least a week before it was posted publicly. But why? No explanation has ever been offered and, disappointingly, none of the reporters at the Columbia press conference asked about it. One obvious benefit to RS is that the advance copy gave them time to prepare their response, coordinate their answers, and even leak some of the worst details in hopes of mitigating the damage. And that’s exactly what RS did — they spoke to New York Times reporters prior to the release of the report in what CNN’s Brian Stelter called on twitter “cutting a side deal with NYT.”
Stelter himself received an “embargoed” copy of the full report in advance of its public release and would not disclose from whom. This practice is so plainly underhanded that the Columbia report itself bemoans the tactic when examining the reasons RS withheld info from the fraternity:
“There are cases where reporters may choose to withhold some details of what they plan to write while seeking verification for fear that the subject might “front run” by rushing out a favorably spun version pre-emptively. There are sophisticated journalistic subjects in politics and business that sometimes burn reporters in this way.”
As someone that’s worked in corporate PR for many years, I can tell you that reporters would absolutely never provide the subject of a story the advance copy of that piece. Most often, you get sandbagged with less than 24 hours to react to presented details.
— Many of the journalists that are now covering and analyzing the fallout are the same people that played a big role in hyping the RS story in the first place. Yet, there’s been little if any contrition or even chagrin about the part they played. Tamron Hall and Irin Carmon on MSNBC, to cite just two among scores, had an exchange on the air yesterday criticizing RS at arm’s length — as if they were merely observers. Yet both of them gave Erdely extensive air time to tout her story with virtually zero skepticism applied. Erdely even took to twitter to thank them (and many others) effusively at the time. I guess it’s expecting too much that they might acknowledge that on the air and apologize for having provided the bandwagon and for deceiving their own viewers.
Finally, some of the takeaways from one of the report’s authors, Columbia Dean Sheila Coronel, are disturbing to say the least. Here are some quotes from an interview she gave the school newspaper yesterday:
“All of this is deflecting from the real problem: Campus sexual assault is an issue.” [Essentially the same non-sequitur, blinkered argument that Erdely tried to leverage when she spoke to the Washington Post.]
“The issue, then, is not focusing on the truth of individual accounts but looking at how the system works and whether institutional responses were adequate.” [Um, we should not focus on the truth of individual accounts? This is from the author of a report that lectures on the paramount importance of accuracy.]
Asked about the Sulkowicz case where a Columbia student was exonerated and yet nevertheless vilified in the press, Coronel still refers to him as an assailant: “This is an issue that’s very much out there, and both victims and assailants are now willing to come out and identify themselves.”
So Coronel appears to have the same agenda-driven outlook that, in part, led Erdely into this whole debacle in the first place and that has been plaguing news coverage on the issue. I’d urge anyone to read KC Johnson’s (who led the debunking of the Duke lacrosse case) fine analysis on this aspect at Minding the Campus:
So, readers may not know all the inside-baseball journalism rules at play here — but they can certainly sense clubbiness and group-think when they see it.
All for now and, again, please keep up the great work, Richard…
4/8/2024 12:21 am
From the CSJ report: “Last July 8, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, a writer for Rolling Stone, telephoned Emily Renda, a rape survivor working on sexual assault issues as a staff member at the University of Virginia. Erdely said she was searching for a single, emblematic college rape case that would show “what it’s like to be on campus now … where not only is rape so prevalent but also that there’s this pervasive culture of sexual harassment/rape culture,” according to Erdely’s notes of the conversation.”
Emily Renda is the “survivor” who put SRE in touch with Jackie Coakley. She is apparently a part of this weird social movement to completely remove personal responsibility from women. In her first year at UVa Miss Renda got drunk, went home with a guy to his dorm, and alleges that he raped her.
In her FOURTH YEAR she is making this statement on her Cavalier page:
“When you get the urge to go home and you say, ‘Ah, I am kind of tired. I am going to call it a night’ or you’re hanging out with your friends and you say, ‘Ehh I’m done for the night,’ stay for one more drink,” Renda said. “You will always find that new depth of friendship, that new relationship, that new anything.”
She is an advocate for women “victims,” and working to expand Federal Title IX authority over schools with the general aim to criminalize drunken sex (for the boys, of course). Something is rotten in the … well, everywhere.
4/8/2024 12:34 am
Chapter 1. The (fake) story reported
Chapter 2. The (fake) story unravels [most credit to the original post here]
Chapter 3. The “apology” and the wait
Chapter 4. The report welcomed (and dismissed)
…
Chapter 5. The lawsuit???
Chapter 6. Erdely takes a teaching job
4/8/2024 12:40 am
I can only pray that Jackie is a wonderful genius who has planned all of this to help us all on the road to ridding our country of these social justice warriors gone bizerk.
Thanks Richard. You’ve been cheated man from all the credit you deserve.
4/8/2024 12:47 am
Richard,
Awesome, as usual.
Have seen all the usual posters except one.
Where is our resident rape culture propagandist se????
4/8/2024 12:50 am
Just read SRE’s Rolling Stone piece on the Navy petty officer who was allegedly raped(20-year vet, so I feel some kinship here). Not going to critique the legal aspects here, but two things(well several, actually) jumped out at me:
1. The style and content of the story is almost exactly the same as the UVA story; Open with a horrific depiction of sexual assault to hook the reader in, then recount the organization’s supposed indifference to the crime.
2. More importantly, in this case, recite completely ridiculous stats and quotations from dubious sources as fact, i.e. 1-in-3 women are sexually assaulted in the military. That alone should throw the entire article in doubt. For that stat to be even credible, every command would literally be spending half its day just raping people. A ship at sea would literally be a charnel house of openly deviant behavior where there’d be no one left to man the helm.
The rest of the article is full of anecdotal evidence presented as fact, with no attribution or background. The description of the legal proceedings is ridiculous and shows the reporter made no effort to understand how the Navy works when it comes to the UCMJ or military courts martial. In fact, it now appears SRE never even bothered to contact anyone in the petty officer’s chain of command or the NCIS to get the facts from their side of the case, well after final adjudication and closure.
Whatever really happened in that case, Erdely, once again, did her victim no justice with her substandard attempts at “journalism.”
4/8/2024 12:51 am
josef made the great point that woods basically publicly claimed to have found HAVEN MONAHAN
4/8/2024 12:52 am
Here’s something that confuses me, something that you mentioned before. Erdley wrote “Randall, who, citing his loyalty to his own frat, declined to be interviewed.” So that implies that every other quote from “Randall” was through Jackie. But I read that line as Erdley claiming to have had contact with “Randall” where he directly declined her, with that comment.
Isn’t that the convention? Don’t reporters always say “declined through a lawyer” when it isn’t direct? And certainly when it’s an interested friend rather than a representative! Yet the CJS report does not seem bothered by this and seems to say that the editor knew that it was through Jackie and didn’t hold it to a higher standard than all the other indirect quotes. (Maybe this is why CJS cares about the “shit show” quote, which originated in the same quote, because after months of dealing with the raw material, they think of the “shit show” and “loyalty” quote as one thing, while to me, reading only the final product, they look like separate quotes.)
4/8/2024 1:04 am
Please correct from “Allen Groves wrong” to “Allen Groves wrote”
Thank you for this priceless contribution in service of journalism and of the American society.
4/8/2024 1:06 am
Couple of typos you may or may not care to correct
In the 1st section 10 (there are two):
“Allen Groves >wrongManagine< editor Will Dana’s lack of…"
4/8/2024 1:12 am
In qualified support of CJR, they did not connect all the dots but they exposed most of the dots. Richard connects all the dots and exposes the lies in the rest of the story. Lawyers handling the case against RS will not miss this.
4/8/2024 1:12 am
Sorry I screwed up that last comment. Let me try again.
Couple of typos you may or may not care to correct
In the 1st section 10 (there are two):
“Allen Groves wrong (wrote) a long…”
Start of section 11:
“Managine (Managing) editor Will Dana’s lack of…”
4/8/2024 1:32 am
Richard, please examine “The Rape of Petty Officer Blumer.” It is another easy target that no one seems to have bothered to question in the public forum.
4/8/2024 1:40 am
Dan I think everyone fully understands that all of Erdely’s writings are trash and that humans have been unjustly harmed. However, she is a card carrying full member of the party and will not be further scrutinized.
4/8/2024 1:45 am
Dan ha ha just kidding man. Not really. I don’t know why they don’t drag her off to prison my friend.
4/8/2024 2:08 am
My list of people deserving of recognition in the aftermath of this mess:
#1 Richard Bradley. For being the first “name” journalist to sink his teeth into the Rolling Stone story and then tenaciously never letting go.
#2 T. Rees Shapiro. For old-fashioned but effective shoe-leather reportage for the Washington Post, exposing the true “backstory” of the UVa rape hoax.
#3 Chris Bray. For the best description of SRE’s mindset and modus operandi in a piece for the Daily Caller on Dec 4th, headlined “Your Rape: Is It Clickbait? Does It Pop?”
Honorable mention:
#4 Ashe Schow. Her ongoing coverage at the Washington Examiner has kept the spotlight focused on not only the Rolling Stone fiasco but the wider issue of hysteria about “rape culture” on campuses.
… and hundreds of journalists, bloggers, and internet commenters who each added something worthwhile of their own.
4/8/2024 2:15 am
I-Roller I would ask you to include, amongst others, Hanna Rosen who had the unenviable task of actually facing Erdely and really exposing the fraud fully.
4/8/2024 2:27 am
I know I go on and on and I’m sorry but this really was a good vs evil moment and I’m so proud to have witnessed Richard probably at his life’s finest moment. Once again, thank you so much Richard.
4/8/2024 2:32 am
I don’t think you guys understand. Erdely is irrelevant. She’s just a pawn. She’s acts and writes like clueless school girl who’s excited to have her picture taken in the newspaper. She’s not smart enough to pull this off by herself. She was manipulated. When mistakes are egregious like this, it starts from the top and not isolated to one occurrence.
4/8/2024 2:55 am
Please further explain your theory Piteus.
4/8/2024 3:11 am
Jeez Richard, don’t go so soft on SRE. Have the courage to just come on out and state unambiguously that she’s a terrible journalist. 😛
4/8/2024 3:52 am
I feel very awkward because I’ve had misgivings about the concept of “rape culture” from the beginning, but I generally lean towards the left and there was a very harsh spiral of silence around this issue throughout 2013 and 2014. This also made a good amount of the individuals most willing to discuss these issues some of the worst spokespeople (another effect of spiral of silence).
It feels like we’re getting to an area where this can be discussed openly. The entire post was a good rundown, but those last paragraphs speak to the elephant in the room that everyone is desperate not to talk about.
4/8/2024 7:05 am
RICHARD BRADLEY, YOU DA REAL MVP.
4/8/2024 7:20 am
Richard, the Catholic League has suggested that SRE’s reporting on a scandal involving Catholic priests in Philadelphia was similarly shoddy. If you really want SRE to pay the price, you need to find a second example of her committing journalistic malpractice. I suspect that can be done.
4/8/2024 7:25 am
Not to minimize this blog’s reach, but this deserves publication so that it can be widely read and appreciated.
4/8/2024 7:27 am
[…] It’s like a victory lap, except less smug. […]
4/8/2024 7:30 am
Re: Stank’s question
Emily Renda has done “rape awareness” work for the White House, including frequent visits there, and has testified before the Senate on the subject. She worked with Senator Gillibrand prior to her Senate testimony, if I am not mistaken. She’s quite politically connected, and the explosion of rape culture rhetoric in the media mysteriously coincides with a wave of Title IX investigations. That, and the fact that Sabrina Rubin Erdely went to her for a list of rape victims leads me to believe we’re looking at a leftwing agitprop campaign designed by high level Democrats, if not the Obama administration itself.
4/8/2024 7:32 am
I found the CSJ analysis to be quite good. RS and Erdely were discredited. If RS doesn’t make substantive changes, it will return to what it once was: a fan magazine. Very few readers will take RS seriously now.
UVa fraternities stand head and shoulders above other fraternities currently in the news (potential amputated fingers for a hazing initiate at Syracuse; videos of fraternity brothers singing racist songs about lynching?? in 2015?; hotel rooms trashed out west, etc.) Are these incidents all reported because of media bias? I don’t think so. In fact, to think so is a bias unto itself.
Many fraternities need to reconsider their role and purpose in university life. Phi Psi and other UVa fraternities have done so, even as Phi Psi was falsely accused. As a commenter above said: their integrity is intact.
The real takeaway from the RS debacle is that you cannot pursue the truth through a lie. There is a problem with sexual assault on today’s campuses, both with women being assaulted and with men being falsely accused. Erdely’s use of Jackie’s false allegations did a grave disservice to men and women at universities across the nation who are attempting to solve this problem.
4/8/2024 7:51 am
There are two possible presumptions about RS pre-publication:
1. They actually believed this crock.
2. They knew better but figured they could get away with it.
Anybody want to take a shot at finding some kind of reason for either that would hold water?
1. They’re stupid.
2.. They’re liars.
But, if 2, they figured nobody who was anybody would either spot the lie, or, having spotted it, say anything. Pushback from UVa officials woldn’t surface…. There’d be no journos looking into it, no conservatives looking into it…. Or, if there were, it wouldn’t make any difference because The Narrative would silence them, the Tribe would shout them down as rape apologists….
Their view of the world, if 2, was wrong, but only just wrong. Barely wrong.
Which is scary.
4/8/2024 8:03 am
I have a slightly contrarian point of view on “Jackie” and her culpability. Yes, she is a liar. But I think she bears no blame in this at all. People lie every day, all day long. Some are big lies of consequence, like Jackie’s. But Jackie doesn’t have a huge organization writing, editing, legally vetting, publicizing, printing and distributing her lies worldwide and with great fanfare, resulting in real-world consequences like new laws based on her lies, lawsuits, property damage, damage to lives and reputations. Rolling Stone does have these things, and having them bears great responsibility in making sure this big organization is not spreading lies that have real-world negative consequences for real people because they spread terrible lies. Jackie is mentally disturbed. If RS prints the lies of every psycho, resulting in terrible consequences, they can hardly keep blaming the liars. Rolling Stone bears the main culpability here. Liars can’t force them to print lies, writers can’t force RS to buy and print stories. The magazine itself is responsible for what appears on its pages, period. That doesn’t mean the writer shouldn’t be shunned from the profession, Jackie shouldn’t be a candidate for a mental institution, but the final responsibility is on RS’ head.
4/8/2024 8:13 am
“The real takeaway from the RS debacle is that you cannot pursue the truth through a lie.”
Perhaps, but so far there doesn’t appear to be any real risk or accountability for trying.
I (along with many other visitors to this blog) hope Richard is seriously considering a book project. In many respects an in-depth analysis of the pervasive rape “epidemic” narrative is important for understanding disturbing cultural and journalistic trends.
4/8/2024 8:14 am
Great analysis. I do have one quibble-the fight song that “nobody at UVa has actually heard” was a very popular song back in the day when I was a student. Maybe it has fallen into disuse because of it’s politically correct lyrics today but that wasn’t the case in the late 70s and early 80s.
4/8/2024 8:35 am
Jackie is mentally disturbed.
There’s no evidence to support this belief. Everything she’s done is consistent with being an immature, insecure college student in search of a social network. She happened to fall into a network with absurd group norms and incentives and didn’t have the personal integrity to resist them.
4/8/2024 8:38 am
> Sabrina Rubin Erdely will again grace the magazine’s pages with her Hemingway-esque prose and ironclad reporting.
This belongs under a separate heading, “Prose & Cons”…
4/8/2024 8:40 am
I never heard the fight song. And I do not know any fellow UVa grad, old or young, who has, either. This is a strange side note to a grotesque story.
4/8/2024 8:45 am
Even though RS has taken down the article, it’s still accessible through archive dot org. With all of this controversy and analysis it’s interesting — well, maddening — to re-read the original article. I still get angry about the digs she adds for no reason. I misquoted one sentence in a previous post. This is her actual characterization:
“UVA’s aura of preppy success, where throngs of toned, tanned and overwhelmingly blond students fanned across a landscape of neoclassical brick buildings”
4/8/2024 8:46 am
I do not believe that any reputable law firm vetted this travesty. RS didn’t spend the money.
4/8/2024 8:52 am
I have wondered if instead of white frat boys, (does PSI PSI have non white members? Everyone assumes so, but I haven’t seen a picture) how much traction would this story have if it targeted black frats? Would a story about a black frat gang rape initiation even get covered? Even if it was on U tube? Would a rape culture among black colleges students ever get covered? Unless of course it’s a quarterback from FSU, then you know he is a racist cause football….
It’s like an after school special come to life, from a PC twilight zone….
4/8/2024 8:53 am
Isn’t it convenient how Erdely always picks “public” persons such as public universities, the Roman Catholic church, employees of said public entities to libel and defame but with “private” individuals she finds ways to use pseudonyms, made up identities, etc to hide the fact that she never spoke to them while defaming them in such a way as to make it difficult to sue. The defense for defaming the three “friends” will be that they identified themselves thus making themselves “public” persons. Erdely has been doing this for a long time. Very cynical and legalistic hit jobs she writes.
4/8/2024 8:58 am
Richard —
I first came to your blog a couple of days after your initial post on this affair. After reading it and a couple of your follow-up postings, I went back and read a lot of your earlier work, and I have a different take on the ‘book project’ several posters have suggested:
Turn your blog into one (or start another one) that is purely focused on reporting on the media, and one whose USP is debunking this kind of media hoax. It could also look at the systemic problems of the media as a whole… the fact that ~85% of journalists self-report themselves as much more liberal than the population as a whole (Pew) and how that affects honest coverage — both what gets covered and how it gets covered.
Having proposed that, I know that you may have no interest in doing so, and even less time to actually do it, but I’m going to try and persuade you anyway.
Today’s media industry is kind of unique in that nearly every prominent entity in the industry has a media columnist reporting on the media itself, and there are any number of independent blogs; we’ve always had industry trade publications, but most of these are consumer-oriented. By and large, they are all the same: they comment on the topic du jour once or twice and move on to the next big thing without doing the subject any real justice. In a few cases, a columnist or blogger will stay with a story, but none do it with the dedication and thoroughness that you do. The other thing that makes you different is your analysis… instead of merely commenting, you provide an almost scientific analysis — the ‘how’ and ‘why’ instead of just the ‘what’.
So I think you are uniquely qualified to address this hole in the marketplace… I’m hoping others agree with me and add their voices to mine.
4/8/2024 9:00 am
Mr Bradley, you should copy and paste every one of your blog posts on this subject into a text book and send it to Miss Erdely and everyone else over at Rolling Stone. You have taken them to school.
4/8/2024 9:03 am
This is where the CJS report falls short: RS and Erdely were not just inadequate in their jobs, they were DECEITFUL. Posters on this thread have pointed out several ways, both in the original story and in post-publication interviews, that they deliberately misled their readers and the public about the fact that this was a single-source report with no attempt at confirmation whatsoever.
The CJS report is effective at pointing out the journalistic lapses — but without addressing the deliberate lies (by Woods and Erdely, in particular), they miss the big picture.
4/8/2024 9:07 am
Jackie is mentally disturbed.
There’s no evidence to support this belief.
I have to respectfully disagree. She has pathological lying tendencies to friends, reporters, university officials, and policemen, that indicate possibly a personality disorder or some other behavioral issue. She doesn’t seem to have empathy for others that she harms. While the stress of beginning college is difficult for most young people they manage not to get into this type of mess and then make it worse. This will probably come out in discovery for lawsuits.
4/8/2024 9:09 am
1styearDad
“UVA’s aura of preppy success, where throngs of toned, tanned and overwhelmingly blond students fanned across a landscape of neoclassical brick buildings”
This is SJW code for “you should hate these guys already, facts to follow, or not.” Anybody with half a brain would have known BS was to follow. If we assign RS half a brain, they saw it…and it was good.
4/8/2024 9:19 am
Richard, thank you so much for your role in this. I think many people had a similar reaction as you to the story, but if you hadn’t articulated it so well in your initial post it might have never gone anywhere.
As other’s have mentioned, SRE’s prior RS stories all follow a very similar template. I hope they are all reconsidered and, to the extent anyone has been smeared by them, retracted.
According to Wikipedia, two of her stories have been picked up by movie studios. I suspect this is the real game for SRE. It would explain why her articles read so much like movie scripts, and also why someone professing to act out of a sense of justice can display such an absolutely stunning lack of morality. In the end the lure of the spotlight, cash and potential movie deal for SRE was just too tempting and she was willing to throw the lives of innocent young people to the wolves to get there. A true devil’s bargain if I’ve ever seen one.
I hope the studios have the legal and moral wherewithal to dump the projects and to get their money back from SRE. Somehow I doubt that will happen. Even if she never writes another word of “journalism”, she may yet have a promising career as pulp fiction hack, much like that “million little pieces” guy.
4/8/2024 9:51 am
[…] RICHARD BRADLEY — WHO FIRST SMELLED A RAT IN THAT ROLLING STONE STORY — HAS A POST-MORTEM: In the End, It’s All About Rape Culture—or the Lack Thereof. […]
4/8/2024 9:57 am
I am glad this blogger mentioned Silence of the Lambs because Erdely thinks she’s so slick in aping the styles and themes of pop culture. Note how Jackie is referred to as “it” during her 3-hour rape on broken glass. Sound familiar? I’ve had the misfortune of reading James Patterson, and the southern culture sounds the same, an overbearing rapeyness in the air and everyone knows..they know that Jackie’s gone rogue and going to ruin it for everyone. Uh huh.
Jackie’s a loon whose very existence supported the jobs of several UVA administrators who would otherwise be spending their days playing solitaire. Outside of the administration, she’s an unknown.
The story gets worse because everything gets worse about Erdely’s reporting. Sure, the story of Jackie is bullshit upon first inspection. But as the other victims of her reporting open up, we learn more and more of how Erdely basically lied about everyone. Her male friends didn’t say “that’s tough, but frats gonna frat”, the admin did their job, the southern, rich white male culture didn’t swallow her whole, and oh, Jackie was outside her dorm when she first told her tale that night.
Shame!
4/8/2024 10:05 am
I agree with the comments by Docweasel. People lie every day. Especially to the media, which tends to attract the unhinged (especially when it comes to letters to the editor).
When I worked for a community newspaper, I once dropped an outlandish quote from a local into a story. My editor was furious and said: “If they told you the moon was made of cheese, would you want us to print that too? Rewrite!”
From them on, I backed up quotes. This same editor also used to have me call everyone who wrote a letter to the paper and confirm that the letter was real and that’s what they wanted to say.
How did the Rolling Stone team not known what I learned as a 22-year-old small town reporter?
4/8/2024 10:31 am
For encapsulating the gist of the malpractice and identifying the true victims (most everybody at UVA except Jackie): Bravissimo.
4/8/2024 10:35 am
st/UVA77:
“The real takeaway from the RS debacle is that you cannot pursue the truth through a lie.”
***************
Superbly said, and it should be carved on the lintel above the entrance at RS.
4/8/2024 10:37 am
I was disappointed by the CJR review, in that there wasn’t reporting into what actually happened. I guess Rolling Stone is relying on the Washington Post to do the actual journalism, since they are the only ones to report on the catfishing. (If Jackie got raped when she went on a fake date with a fake person she’s the unluckiest person alive.)
4/8/2024 10:48 am
Wahoo,
I agree that Richard should write a book, if he chooses to do so. He is more than qualified. An in-depth analysis of media narratives is needed, and an analysis that considers all angles, not just one in which the MSM is examined in order to prove that there is a liberal bias. This is not an objective starting point. I realize that you are not advocating this. It seems that some commenters are, however. Conservatives and liberals both have preferred, politicized narratives, and neither narrative produces good journalism.
4/8/2024 11:01 am
Excellent analysis and commentary. The declining state of journalistic discipline and integrity is a huge problem in this country. That trend, coupled with a similarly disturbing decline in accountability, really challenge the durability of a free society. We all need to think about these issues everyday and hold accountable those who don’t meet professional standards.
4/8/2024 11:02 am
“9) Sabrina Rubin Erdely saw what she wanted to see.
All of Jackie’s dissembling—her failure to return phone calls, her evasiveness, her refusal to name names, her threat to pull out of the story—were behaviors that should have set off alarms in any good reporter. Not Erdely. To her, Jackie’s “behavior seemed very consistent with a victim of trauma.” In other words: Every single thing that Jackie did that would, to most reporters, suggest she was an unreliable source, actually confirmed to Erdely that Jackie was a reliable source. In that scenario, there is literally nothing that Jackie could do that would not then be evidence of her credibility. If she swore on a Bible that she was lying, it would only prove how “traumatized” she was.”
To be fair to SRE and RS, this kind of thinking is already being convinced by the feminists and the ilk. See how lots of articles about we must believe rape victims especially if they don’t act like a traumatized victims and Jessica Valenti tweets how if reporters only report on named survivors then we will only hear stories from ‘perfect’ victims. Apparently being a credible victim with facts and evidence supporting you is a ‘perfect’ victim. They can’t fathom that some women might lie about rape that they cast this lying women as somehow ‘imperfect’ victims.
Funny how these same people try to remove labels like ‘slut’ and ‘she’s asking for it’ but then add more labels to rape victims with being ‘perfect’ and ‘imperfect’ victims. It’s laughable, offensive and demonizing real rape victims all over again by categorizing them like that. So to Jessica Valenti and her feminists friends, please shut up with all this ‘perfect’ victim nonsense because you people are actually the one who really harms the rape victims by doing this.
4/8/2024 11:05 am
joe-impeachin may have hit on the real problem here. All and I mean all the people involved in promulgating this story think they are living in a movie script. We have the spunky victim, we have the intrepid reporter, we have the hard charging editor, we have the evil band of thugs raping at will. We have the grandmotherly university president who tries to stop the rapists. (Jane Fonda can play her). Roll credits.
4/8/2024 11:12 am
While I agree with the sentiment that SRE is a terrible journalist (parts I-IV), I think there should considerable more outrage directed towards the other people involved in bringing this story to publication, namely all the people in the proper pay grade.
4/8/2024 11:20 am
Mr. Bradley -
An excellent editorial / dissection of CSJ’s Review. Some things to consider:
1. IMO, the reason Wenner can not terminate Dana, Erdely, or Woods is that he can’t afford hostile witnesses. On Wall Street, there’s instances when firms retained employees accused of sexual harassment because of potential lawsuits. You also saw this when analysts were kept on the payroll during the Enron Civil Case. RS will be sued. The last thing they need is for their employees to flip … which brings me to my next point.
2. I believe Wenner knows more than he’s leading on. You know his reputation … and I know you know RS’ culture. That’s why I believe you were the first to call them out. This was all about pushing a sensational story to sell clicks and magazines. This wasn’t a breakdown in the editorial process … this was a calculated marketing strategy. Dana & Woods knew what they wanted and IMO, were Erdely’s biggest cheerleaders. There’s an article regarding Will Dana’s editing philosophy at Middlebury (Google Will Dana Middlebury speech review). He basically said, “we’ll write what we believe.” This wasn’t negligence … they were pushing boundaries of ethics. It was reckless. Far more punitive. Wenner can’t have this getting out.
3. Erdely is a terrible journalist because she is lazy. How can she write a story on campus rape without reading up on Title IX, FERPA, the Clery Act, etc? She ripped on the UVA administration without knowing the law. It was pathetic. That being said, I challenged “your friend,” Anna Merlan, to do some research and write on Title IX / FERPA which is a major obstacle in how colleges’ handle sexual assault cases. Do something worthwhile. But she continues to regurgitate the news. She’s worse than the AP. She complains, offers no solutions, and adds no value. She chooses to stay irrelevant in the fight for truth and justice. The fight for real victims.
4. I wonder why RS has NOT looked into Erdely’s other articles. It happened to Stephen Glass. You say CSJ did us a disservice when they only looked into Jackie’s story instead of the entire article. Once a writer is discredited, their entire work should be questioned. Isn’t that protocol? Isn’t that what responsible publishers do?
5. Thus, I believe Wenner commissioned a CSJ review to provide a smokescreen. They’re conceding negligence. They’re prepared for some kind of payout through liability insurance. That’s why Erdely reiterated her suspicions after the story was published. IF she was highly skeptical prior, that’s reckless with intent in a court of law. That’s bad. Furthermore, Dana probably hopes the scrutiny stops with this article. It wouldn’t surprise me if they pushed the lines with Erdely’s other stories. Appease the mass now.
Erdely doesn’t appreciate Woods throwing her under the bus. The tensions are obvious. But for their survival, they’re sticking together. It’s ironic that Erdely accused UVA Admin / Phi Psi of stonewalling. Now that the shoes on the other foot, she’s hiding behind her lawyers. Rape is about power. They demanded the Universities to own up. In this case, RS had all the power … they tarnished the reputation of many. Now when we ask RS to do the same, they ultimately deny fault. How hypocritical.
I’m no writer or advocate. Not even that political. Just work in finance in NYC. Just know a lot of decent writers and journalists through school (Northwestern) and Manhattan. RS has really hurt that community. They also hurt the people who really do try to help survivors in desperate need. The best way to find support is through truth. Sorry for my rant. Excellent article Mr. Bradley.
4/8/2024 11:39 am
I’ve never heard the Rugby Road fight song either. The fight song I am aware of is the Good ‘Ole Song (which is as tame as it gets).
For many folks who went to UVa, it’s this kind of thing that reveals Erdely’s malice. The manicured lawns of Mad Bowl. (Really?) The blondes. So many blondes! (As she put it, “throngs of toned, tanned and overwhelmingly blond students”; what a wonderfully absurd phrase). The description of Phi Psi an “‘upper tier’ frat [that] had a reputation of tremendous wealth” and whose house is perched atop “the undisputed best real estate” on Rugby Road. You’ve got to be kidding me. That’s no knock on Phi Psi; I’m sure that — “you’ve got to be kidding me!” — was their exact reaction reading this nonsense.
There is much evidence in the original story (given what we now know) to prove that Erdely had a wanton disregard for (and perhaps a hostility to) the truth, and was not merely guilty of gross journalistic negligence. One brick in that wall is her absurd and calculated description of UVa.
And the sad reality is that her hit piece, even now, was thoroughly effective in changing the cultural perception of UVa. Outside certain interested groups (journalists, alumni, etc.) no one has paid attention to the details of this story. The public knows that a gang rape story in the Rolling Stone piece has some discrepancies, but their overall sense is that something bad happened, and besides UVa is a rape school. (Sadly, our President has not shown leadership in countering this meme with the truth.)
This will no longer be a big story next week. The lingering sense that UVa is a rape school will persist. Phi Psi will lose its lawsuit, and as a consequence there will be a brief spike in coverage that reinforces that sense. How depressing.
4/8/2024 11:40 am
I’ve never heard the Rugby Road fight song either. The fight song I am aware of is the Good ‘Ole Song (which is as tame as it gets).
For many folks who went to UVa, it’s this kind of thing that reveals Erdely’s malice. The manicured lawns of Mad Bowl. (Really?) The blondes. So many blondes! (As she put it, “throngs of toned, tanned and overwhelmingly blond students”; what a wonderfully absurd phrase). The description of Phi Psi an “‘upper tier’ frat [that] had a reputation of tremendous wealth” and whose house is perched atop “the undisputed best real estate” on Rugby Road. You’ve got to be kidding me. That’s no knock on Phi Psi; I’m sure that — “you’ve got to be kidding me!” — was their exact reaction reading this nonsense.
There is much evidence in the original story (given what we now know) to prove that Erdely had a wanton disregard for (and perhaps a hostility to) the truth, and was not merely guilty of gross journalistic negligence. One brick in that wall is her absurd and calculated description of UVa.
4/8/2024 11:40 am
I’ve never heard the Rugby Road fight song either. The fight song I am aware of is the Good ‘Ole Song (which is as tame as it gets).
For many folks who went to UVa, it’s this kind of thing that reveals Erdely’s malice. The manicured lawns of Mad Bowl. (Really?) The blondes. So many blondes! (As she put it, “throngs of toned, tanned and overwhelmingly blond students”; what a wonderfully absurd phrase). The description of Phi Psi an “‘upper tier’ frat [that] had a reputation of tremendous wealth” and whose house is perched atop “the undisputed best real estate” on Rugby Road. You’ve got to be kidding me. That’s no knock on Phi Psi; I’m sure that — “you’ve got to be kidding me!” — was their exact reaction reading this nonsense.
4/8/2024 12:01 pm
Richard, thank you so much for your questioning, your diligence and your hard work.
As a woman, I am horrified at how liars undermine true victims. It creates and propagates the very same hostile environment that the victim culture rails against.
As an alum of UVa, I also thank you for your words about UVa administration. If anything, the responses were flawed in that they erred on the side of the victim. The allegations that they were unfeeling or disinterested are incredibly hurtful to the campus reputation, and there is harm done there. It again, adds to the hostile environment problem.
I hope that parents aren’t teaching their teenage girls to be sad victims who won’t press charges. The “rape crisis” groups sure seem to be doing that. I have told my teenage daughter that I sure hope she never is in contact with a situation like this- but if she is- her or a friend, you call 911. You get a rape kit done. And you press for prosecution. Because that is how we, as a society, accomplish justice.
SRE accomplished the opposite of justice for everyone involved. Time for her to get another job.
Again, thank you for your work. True journalists are worth their weight in gold. Too bad there are so few of them left.
4/8/2024 12:07 pm
” I believe Eramo; at the least, Erdely misquoted her; at the worst, Erdely made up quotes.”
You miss a third option. These “University officials” got the same treatment as “Jackie friends”. The “quotes” were quotes of what Jackie claims the people said; not quotes of what the people said.
She did that repeatedly in the article for other people; it’s entirely possible she continued her deceptive crappy “reporting” practice here.
I’m guessing “someone said the university official said” got truncated to “the university official said” in the reporting; it would fit with her “style” of reporting.
4/8/2024 12:23 pm
Anonymous (lintel)
Thank you.
Some other journalists and activists who would do well to dispense with ostensibly seeking truth while ignoring it when it presents itself, would be those who pushed the “Hands Up” narrative of Micheal Brown’s shooting death in spite of conflicting evidence that was available at the time the narrative developed.
Look at the consequences: riots, looting, and a thirty year old (I believe that was his age) policeman shot in the face.
Meanwhile……meanwhile…lest those on the right invested in their own narrative take off with that, in today’s news a video of an African American man being shot in the back by a white South Carolina police officer is online for all to see. Isolated incident? Doubt it.
As Hannah Rosin said in an interview after the RS story began to unravel: the truth matters. Indeed, it does. Or, as those much older and wiser than we may ever be said: the truth will set you free. Hopefully. If we can ever get access to it.
4/8/2024 12:31 pm
[My comment doesn’t seem to show up. Because there’s a URL in it?]
Let me add my thanks and congratulations to Mr. Bradley for his crucial role in exposing this.
And yes, all of SRE’s earlier stories need a similar examination. Search for “firstteamtommy” at storify.com for questions about important aspects of the Petty Officer Blumer rape story. Her story of “Billy” and the priest rapists, and her story of the “gangster princess of Beverly Hills” also have highly questionable, “too good to be true” aspects.
Boca Condo King: Recently there have been a number of gang rapes perpetrated by black men on college campuses, but they tend to get limited publicity. They don’t fit the narrative the media wants to promote.
4/8/2024 12:42 pm
Thank you, Richard.
Trying to destroy the lives of innocent young men is evil, as you and your readers know. This knowledge, apparently, disqualifies you from employment at Rolling Stone.
4/8/2024 12:56 pm
If you look at some of her previous “work” you can see that this probably isn’t the first time she’s made stuff up. There is this ridiculous article about a call-girl that reads like a trashy dime-store novel written by a 40 year old Mormon housewife using a pseudonym of Rose Angelica Silvershadow.
4/8/2024 12:58 pm
I am a journalist from Germany who has been following this incredible tale from the start. I just got to say that you did an absolutely superb job from the very beginning. My most sincere congratulations to you and quite a bit of feeling of despair about our profession as well. How come a blogger was the first to small a rat?
4/8/2024 1:01 pm
Yeah, a lot of good stuff here. Very good job.
On Erderly, I don’t think this was a good vs evil thing . But her frame was a crusade to stamp out something probably thought it would explode, didnt anticipate the implosion that would follow.
Wouldnt waste time in analyzing past stuff. I wonder if SRE will call up a key witness here. That would be rich. The irony to me still is the missed opportunity - a fraud. Erderly’s methods could have been in the service of untangling one school’s efforts and show how hard it is to separate facts from truth. Instead a dumb agenda devoid of facts and informed solely by stereotype and bias.
She could have done something interesting vs inflammatory. Cant tell how many emais i got on this story. How on facebook i posted the article and within weeks reposted the updates that slowly but surely unraveled the story.
Im embarassed. Friends swore they would never again go to uva and return with their families. Thankfully they are going back to reunions. But thats only because of the work of those journalists that decided to take a fresh look. They wouldnt have gone otherwise unless the story was exposed as a fake .
Funny how divorced sre really was from uva. Rugby road is fine, but the university has a lot more interesting places. Also given the accusers thirst for perpetua revenge it would have been worth seeing if she was rejected in rushing a sorority. But who cares now. This story is dead. Outlets have reposted the turn in events.
Would be rich though to see if there is anything else coming dowb the pike, like an oped fron sre or the accuser saying i royally messed up, a mea culpa and just taking it like an adult. Otherwise id expect the lawsuits will keep them occupied . Cowardly.
4/8/2024 1:09 pm
I would like to see the lawsuit go on and and these crooks and liars put on the stand under penalty of perjury. I would like to see SRE’s other articles put under a microscope and taken apart and investigated. They all read and smell the same. I call BS on all of them. I believe that SRE has some serious pathology and has through projective identification libeled the frat boys with the very sickness that she is guilty of….having no conscience and taking pleasure in others pain and suffering. Sociopath or psychopath? I vote the latter. RS not firing her is clearly a sign that they have something to hide and are keeping her on the payroll to enlist her help. This is essentially a bribe to her for her silence. They are scared that their house of lies will fall apart….and it will….at the slightest push. The CJS report is an inside job with their uncritical acceptance of quotes obviously fed to them by SRE and others. Where is the independent reviewer? This has not heaped glory on RS, the CJS and journalism as a profession. Mr Bradley you were first and you were right and you went about it professionally. RS has a lot to learn from you……it won’t happen and their decline will continue.
4/8/2024 1:10 pm
Sabrina is a terrible journalist.
But let’s not forget that Rolling Stone is a terrible magazine. I mean really terrible.
If you have any doubts about that, click on their website and read Michael Weinreb’s assault from yesterday on some poor freshman from Duke who happened to play well on Monday night.
4/8/2024 1:19 pm
Thank you, Mr. Bradley.
Your dedication - to shining daylight on the cockroaches responsible for this piece of tripe pawned off as “journalism” - gives me hope.
Thank you for being a living example that there are individuals still left in our society that have integrity and value the truth.
Thank you for giving me hope. Now, I will hope that Phi Psi sues Rolling Stone out of existence, and that Sabrina Erdely’s byline will never ever be seen again, anywhere.
4/8/2024 1:26 pm
Just wanted to add my thanks for all your work.
4/8/2024 1:34 pm
The article when it came out was relevant to my life. My daughter, a high school senior, was considering applying to UVA when the article came out. We don’t subscribe to RS, but my wife saw the cover on a grocery shelf and brought home and laid it in front of me.
I read it on my way out the door to work. I had ten minutes to think about it and called my wife.
I told her:
1) Of course it would be horrible if true, but having read it, I didn’t think it was going to be true. She asked why. I said, too many anonymous sources and not verifiable. Fits too neatly and completely into the current narrative. Having been a member of a rowdy fraternity, there is no way such an “actual” event could have been contained on campus, college kids love to talk too much. It was implausible that many well to do kids would partake in a life-ending/ruining felony over such a long time; several of them would have put an end to it out of pure self-preservation. The “bros before hos” belief is a fiction in my direct experience.
2). The article should not have been published because it did not meet reasonable standards for
3). Wait, this article is going to be shown to be false most likely.
I told her both of these within 10 minutes of reading while I was in a hurry thinking mainly of other things. It was so atrocious, I didn’t believe it for a second, even though we were contemplating our daughter’s possible attendance there — and I am a typical over-protective father.
I think that anyone believing this article as written at the time it was published was guilty of either gross gullibility, ignorance, bias, naïveté, or malice. I don’t think it was anything special to sniff out its fake-ness, anyone with an ounce of common sense could see it.
4/8/2024 1:39 pm
The CJS report begins by claiming that Emily Renda is a “rape survivor”. There is no evidence to support Renda’s claims, which seem implausible and moreover have been changing. See, for example, what Charles Johnson has found (at Gotnews).
In other words, the CJS has made a mistake similar to the mistake made by Rolling Stone: they believed a rape story that was unevidenced and implausible, and they did no checking before publishing their claim.
It’s unbelievable!
4/8/2024 1:45 pm
Correction above:
….did not meet reasonable standards for verifiability or rebuttal by the “accused.”
4/8/2024 1:57 pm
JMil - we have a responsibility to scrutinize Erdely past works. How many others have been defamed? How many powerless people’s reputations were destroyed? Will Dana is a dangerous person. He’s on record that he wants bias reporting. That’s actually fine … but ultimately he also adds, “we write what we believe.” This is a man who values selling clicks and magazine over integrity. Erdely is a pawn. She’s not smart enough to pull this off. She needed support from the top. In his heart, I think Mr. Bradley knows. But he stops short of accusing Dana and Wenner of it. I get it … it’s tough to eat your own until you get concrete evidence. But the circumstantial evidence is quite damning.
4/8/2024 2:08 pm
The Rugby Road song was well known in my time at the university. But only two or three verses were sung, and some verses mentioned in Rolling Stone are unknown to me. That didn’t raise a red flag for me, as party songs like the Rugby Road song (it’s not a ‘fight song’ which, presumably, would have been sung at sporting events) were subject to having new verses added and old ones discarded. I learned a verse referencing Agnes Scott from an older alum, as no undergrad was singing it at the time.
The red flag for me in the Rolling Stone story was the participation in the rape (with a beer bottle) of a classmate in Jackie’s Anthropology discussion section. In my time at U.Va., a discussion section was a relatively intimate group. Though much has changed, If she was attending regularly, I would expect that she knew this young man reasonably well by the time of her alleged rape. Jackie would have certainly been able to identify him. But there is no real follow up on that aspect of the story. I found that to be incredible.
4/8/2024 2:09 pm
What’s with All The Male Feminists at Rolling Stone?
Is Rolling Stone the new Jezebel?
I gather Sabrina has a feminist, anti-male agenda, but all the editors were men (?). How did these men put the fraternities in front of Sabrina’s ‘firing squad’ so easily?
At the press conference, a reporter asked, ‘Would this fiasco have happened if there were female editors at Rolling Stone?’
Not sure if the implication was other women would have better discernment wrt Jackie. In any case, Sheila Coronel sort of made light of it, saying she supported women in leadership; Coll agreed.
If Sabrina is too much of a sociopath to apologize to the men at the fraternities, will the male editors at Rolling Stone man up and apologize? Or will they continue to hide behind Sabrina’s skirt?
They also deserve space in the next issue of R/S for an op ed. How about the same amount of space as Erdely’s hit piece?
4/8/2024 2:17 pm
Richard —
Breitbart.com:
Veteran Editor: Sabrina Rubin Erdely Likely Lied in Investigation of Rolling Stone Rape Debacle
Pretty good summary which links back to both your original post and your autopsy of the CSJ autopsy.
I’m getting the sense that your critique of the CSJ piece is going to make your blog better known than the original piece did, which is a shame in that more of the media should have A) mentioned you as the person who unearthed this fraud, and B) linked to your piece rather than just mentioning it.
4/8/2024 2:28 pm
Richard,
I’ll add my voice to those who say, “excellent job.” What bothers me the most about this whole episode is the seemingly common desire to support some pre-existing narrative. There must be something deep seated in human nature where we want to protect our previously held beliefs at the expense of new (contradictory) information. So we cherry pick to support what we already (think we) know.
Speaking for myself I discovered you during this whole UVA debacle. What will keep me coming back are your thoughts and opinions on practices in journalism. I’ve always thought that each of us must be a careful consumer of information. What are the biases of the author, of the source; does this fit with other information that I know? What was written but also what was not written or even covered. Does it seem credible? Compared to many of us you are in a unique position; you have seen the best and worst that the industry seems to offer. Perhaps by analyzing both good and bad examples of journalism you can help us better understand how to be critical readers and what may (or may not) be happening behind the scenes.
In any event, well done!
4/8/2024 2:31 pm
I want to echo others that I wish Richard’s outstanding work here was available in some bigger platform beyond this blog.
I wish the fraternity the best of luck with their lawsuit, may they at least get some fiscal comfort after being so dehumanized. And I hope Erdely and any staff involved with the story somehow are prevented to doing further damage professionally. But even if both both my hopes come true, the underlying problem was not bad journalistic practices, it was that there was an agenda. The language and conjectures of rape culture theory and belief in a campus rape epidemic underlie the RS article and their subsequent responses almost entirely. I’m not certain if that’s clear to everyone who read the article. It’s like how the movie When A Man Loves A Woman entirely echoed the language and modus operandi of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Journalists need to confront and challenge this language and ideas, and so far all I’m seeing is an uncritical adherence to them, even by the Columbia report and their recent press conference. I’m no conspiracy theorist, so it’s shocking to sense a pattern of the media, government (as a foreigner, it’s disgusting how campus sexual assault protocol has become a partisan issue), and academe colluding to create non-evidence- based advocacy of sexual assault accusers and denial of due process rights to the accused. It’s crucial to move beyond an emphasis on Rolling Stone’s wrongdoings and pending litigation, and criticize everyone who is culpable in this hate movement.
4/8/2024 2:34 pm
TRT - I don’t think there’s anything wrong with protecting the rights of the powerless. That’s how I was raised and continue to believe. Sometimes it doesn’t always seem that way in my line of work … but in the end, I try to act accordingly because it’s the right thing to do. But don’t confuse SOME of these activists who champion a cause to push their narrative. They appear to support a worthy cause … but it’s usually not about the cause but more about self promoting. There’s two kind of BAD activists:
1. The types like Anna Merlan who champion a cause without knowing the real issues. They do it because they believe it’s the right thing to do. They never add much value except complain, offer no solution, and call people names when they don’t agree. These people are irrelevant and will have bearing on the real issues on hand.
2. The second BAD activists are people like Rolling Stone. These are the most dangerous. They act like they support a good cause for self gain. They propagate myths, push their agenda, railroad the innocent all in the name for self promotion. You saw it in Erdely and Dana (selling a cause for money). They not only destroy people’s lives, they hurt the cause they appear to support. These people are relevant and need to be stopped.
A lot of activists are good people. A lot of feminists push real issues and well read … their heart is in the right place. They want to help the powerless. Don’t cr@p on the good ones. Differentiate from the good and the bad.
4/8/2024 2:44 pm
I hope some of the other pieces of her catalog get looked at with more scrutiny. As a Catholic living in Philadelphia, i remember how incendiary her Catholic priest abuse article was and how the very obvious holes in the story fell on deaf ears (the story’s version of “Jackie” is beyond incredulous).
I think the piece about gay bullying in one of Michelle Bachmann’s districts also got some heat.
4/8/2024 2:50 pm
Good work, Mr. Bradley
I ho
4/8/2024 2:54 pm
Thanks to Dave for making note of the fact that SRE’s preference for her version over the facts is not an “isolated” incident, in spite of what RS claims. Will the press call RS on that fact?
4/8/2024 2:56 pm
To get a sense of how twisted the media is, one has only to look at what editors at other magazines who have edited her say — it’s all uniformly gushingly positive.
The real question here now that she has been exposed as a sloppy half-doer is will those same national magazines that were only too happy to have her prior to this fiasco continue to buy her work? It’s impossible to know if RS is willing to continue with her out of legal protection concerns, but those other magazines don’t have that problem.
4/8/2024 3:03 pm
Wow. Great post. Thanks very much.
4/8/2024 3:08 pm
Interested Observer-
I noticed that AP picked up an article entitled, “Rolling Stone retraction a rare blemish for journalist Sabrina Rubin Ertely” by Geoff Mulvihill.
It reads like a PR piece (except for the fact that Erdely is misspelled in the headline).
4/8/2024 3:11 pm
One piece of BS that the report doesn’t call Erdely out on – re not interviewing the three friends, the report says that “It should have been possible for Erdely to identify the trio independently.” The report then offers two examples of avenues that “might” have worked – “Facebook friend listings might have shown the names. Or, Erdely could have asked other current students, besides Pinkleton, to help.” But the report leaves out the most obvious course – the “freshman-year suitemate,” Rachel Soltis, that Erdely was already in touch with. It’s a virtual certainty that had Erdely asked Soltis about the three friends – whose first names she already knew – that Soltis could have told Erdely exactly who they were. (presumably that is how the Washington Post reporters found them). If she couldn’t – i.e., if there wasn’t anyone by any of those names that the suitemate remembers hanging out with Jackie – that would have been a huge red flag in its own right. But Erdely didn’t even ask Soltis about the three friends. And according to the report, didn’t even try to verify they existed / contact them independently until she visited UVA in September, when she asked Alex Pinkleton about them.
In hindsight we know the three do exist and that Jackie had provided their real names, but based on what Erdely knew about them before publication they could have been as fabricated as “Drew” or the supposed student in her anthropology class discussion group.
This is another example, btw, of why a definitive timeline would have made the report much better – and damning of Erdely, RS, etc.
4/8/2024 3:12 pm
My comment didn’t show up- possibly because there was a link in it to an interview Erdely did with the Brian Lehrer show. She actually said that mm a fraternities rape because of “narcissism and feelings of entitlement.” This is her own bias. She offers no fats to back this up.
Also when an attorney calls in to the program to say that many campus rape complaints turn out to be false, boy, is Erdely nasty to him. She tells Lehrer that the guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
I hope that the attorneys for the fraternity will listen to all of her media interviews, as she spears to lie a number of times
4/8/2024 3:16 pm
After listening to SRE’s appearances on the different shows following the RS story, there are several instances where SRE stated that the identity of the fraternity members including Drew were known!!! Then in the CJR, she clearly backs away from this position. Which is true? I think we know the answer so the media appearances show she was deliberately misleading the public on critical questions. How much more evidence is needed of deception?
4/8/2024 3:18 pm
Also in another media interview, Erdely bragged that she “spoke ” to practically all of Jackie’s friends. Who would those friends be? She didn’t talk to the three friends who Jacki said she told about the “rape. “
4/8/2024 3:19 pm
Ah ha!!! An explanation of the motivation behind the Associated Press’ article, “Rolling Stone’s retraction is a rare blemish for journalist Sabrina Rubin Ertely.”
See the website Return of Kings for “Did AP Writer Geoff Mulvihill Lie By Omission In Defending Philadelphia Colleague Sabrina Erdely?”
4/8/2024 3:23 pm
Troy: in the interview with Slate, Erdely said that ” everyone ” on campus knew the identity of the attacker, ” Drew. ” Did Jackue tell her this or did Erdely just make it up?
4/8/2024 3:32 pm
How much, I wonder, of the final detailed version of Jackie’s horror story was elicited in response to Erdley’s leading questions. Renda has indicated that Erdely tried to get her to tell a more dramatic story but she wouldn’t. I can just hear Erdley: Are you sure it was only five men, maybe it was seven? Were you penetrated with any object besides a penis. Did anyone indicate this was part of a frat initiation? Are you sure it lasted 30 minutes, maybe it was 3 hours? Are you sure you don’t remember where the party happened, could it have been in a fraternity house? Are you sure you weren’t hurt, wasn’t there some blood?
Jackie is a liar and Erdley is a manipulator as well as a liar.
4/8/2024 4:02 pm
Just a comment on the song lyrics. I’ve written a history of student life at my undergraduate college (which was *not* UVa.) and in researching it I found that it was amazing how quickly even the most popular songs could vanish utterly from students’ ken. In the case of student traditions that are kept alive by students and not by the school (and that song, I should think, would qualify), it is easy for one or two disinterested classes to scuttle something simply by not teaching it to their juniors. So the late-’70’s early-80’s grad who sang “Rugby Road” often and the ’85 grad who never heard it could very well both be right.
4/8/2024 4:13 pm
Richard,
As a UVA alum and parent of a current student (a daughter), I cannot thank you enough for this excellent post. It’s absolutely the best response to the CJS report that I’ve read, and I’ve read many.
4/8/2024 4:19 pm
Looking at Ederly’s body of work, one is left with the impression that she is a fiction writer at heart who was told to get a job as a kid. She could not do law school so the next best thing was “journalism.”
Now, usually there are these things called “facts.” As a “journalist” she found out the only way you can avoid “facts” ruining her stories was to write negative things about white, heterosexual, non-Jewish males or any institutions reportedly run by same. Opportunistically, she has latched into this because it gives her carte-blanche and immunity to utilize her active imagination and florid language.
If she tried writing the same “exposes” about Black, Jewish, Latino, etc. organizations, with the same language and intellectual rigor, she would already be probably locked up for hate crimes.
4/8/2024 4:20 pm
Meredith Dixon, good comment. Interesting.
4/8/2024 4:53 pm
After pondering this report and Jann Wenner’s lack of follow-up, my take is that Wenner does not really want to improve the quality of Rolling Stone’s journalism. His purpose with this inquiry was to create an impression that he’s improving Rolling Stone’s standards without really changing anything. The fact that he’s not firing anyone over this fiasco is one big reason that I say that, but a second reason is just as important.
Specifically, the second reason is that Rolling Stone hasn’t committed to conduct an inquiry on every article that Erdely has written for it. (If I’m wrong on this point and RS has made some commitment to review other stories, someone please correct me.) She’s written fourteen other pieces for Rolling Stone, based on the archive listing at her website. People have raised similar questions about the accuracy of accounts from alleged victims in two of her other articles from RS: “The Rape of Petty Officer Blumer” and “The Catholic Church’s Secret Sex-Crime Files”. By the way, all fourteen of her stories for RS have been published since Will Dana was named managing editor at RS in 2005. There should be ample concern to conduct an inquiry on those other articles - except that, as I said, I don’t think that Wenner really cares if they’re similarly shoddy. He only cares about the PR consequences of the public figuring out that articles are shoddy work.
As further evidence of Wenner’s cowardly mishandling, contrast this approach with how publications dealt with the exposure of both Stephen Glass and Jayson Blair. In both cases, publications reviewed and corrected or retracted well over ten articles.
4/8/2024 5:03 pm
A Different Dave: Will Dana said that they would continue to use Erdely because they’d never had any problems with their other stories. I suspect that they have all been told to tell the press that they are supportive of Erdely now because of lawsuits. Having been a freelance fact checker at Rolling Stone some years ago, I imagine behind the scenes it’s a different story. Lots of anger and finger-pointing. I doubt they ever use Erdely again, despite what they are saying.
There’s nothing stopping other outlets from fact checking her past stories.
4/8/2024 5:34 pm
Journalism has become propaganda. Look at Talking Points Memo today, which has expressed no interest in going through Erdely’s other Rolling Stone articles, like TNR did with Stephen Glass.
What is he pushing instead? Another unsubstantiated rape claim from a UVA student, this one suddenly remembered by the student two years after it supposedly happened. She gives no details of this incident at all; Josh Marshall just takes her word for it.
Amazing.
4/8/2024 5:41 pm
CJR has a new interview posted today:
“Do scandals like Rolling Stone’s do lasting damage to journalism?”
. . .
“We asked media writers, analysts, and educators to gauge how Rolling Stone stacks up against the rest.”
. . .
“The New York Times had Jayson Blair. USAToday had Jack Kelley. The New Republic had Stephen Glass. All of those weren’t that long ago. All of those organizations recovered. I think Rolling Stone is going to have a very difficult time of communicating to its audience that it’s taking this seriously.
“That doesn’t mean it can’t. It took months for anyone to be fired over Jayson Blair. It didn’t happen in the immediate aftermath. It took an internal revolt for that to happen.”
If nobody is fired, who would want to stay working for this rag? Not exactly a resume builder.
4/8/2024 5:42 pm
Victoria - it’s pretty much what I thought and even stated at 11:20AM today. Your opinion is extremely interesting considering you’ve worked with them. I said this before, the reputation of Wenner and the culture of RS was well known throughout certain circles of NYC. I don’t think it was an accident Mr. Bradley was one of the first to carefully scrutinize a controversial article from RS. But even Mr. Bradley comes short of coming down really hard on Wenner and Dana. Can’t blame him. You can’t eat your own without concrete evidence. But I think in his heart … he knows the real issues. And I bet you have a good feeling of what really happened … having experienced their culture.
4/8/2024 6:02 pm
Ms. Erdely interviewed me for the RS article (I was a UVA Phi Psi in ’84 when the Liz Seccuro event took place. Ultimately, Ms. Erdely did not publish any part of our conversation as it did not help her in her apparent efforts to tell the story she wanted to tell.
The RS article was a sensational and malicious hack job that vilifies UVA administrators, UVA students (I can just imagine a crowd of young men and women walking to the football game and singing some of the lyrics presented in the article), Phi Psi and fraternities in general, and pretty much the entire male gender.
The CJS Report takes a lot space to say that RS relied on one woman’s story and failed to verify the facts prior to releasing a sensational and malicious hack job to millions of readers.
Thanks to Mr. Bradley for his candor and clarity!
4/8/2024 6:02 pm
Erdely never said she had any doubts in her the press appearances- which she trumpeted repeatedly on both her Facebook and Twitter pages.
Did the CJR review look at Erdely’s media interviews, I wonder? They are extremely problematic and provide ammo for the attorneys of the fraternity.
Did CJR realize that Erdely told Slate in an interview that “everyone” at UVA knew the identity of “Drew”, Jackie’s attacker? Why would she say something like that? Erdely doesn’t seem all there herself.
4/8/2024 6:07 pm
1PhiPsi: Thank you for your comment. I am sorry for the ordeal that Erdely has put on everyone associated with UVA.
4/8/2024 6:37 pm
Great essay. Thanks for wading through the whole thing, as I’m sure it was a lot of material. I have only skimmed the Columbia report.
Agreed that the whole “rape culture” nonsense needs critical examination, but it will never get it from the likes of Erdely, who is a true believer in such ghost stories. Moreover, her target audience will not be impressed with comprehensive takedowns, because, as with her, they just “know” such things are categorically true, along with “male privilege”, “patriarchy”, and other feminist hobgoblins. We here deal with religious first principles.
To the Phi Kappa Psi self-identifying above: good luck in your house’s lawsuit against Rolling Stone. I have no idea whether it will succeed (and from what I know — IANAL — the odds are against you because of the lack of an identifiable person libeled), but something needs to happen here to stop the career of Ms. Erdely and the many others intent on defaming men in pursuit of horrific stories.
4/8/2024 7:44 pm
Jim McCarthy writes:
“And that’s exactly what RS did — they spoke to New York Times reporters prior to the release of the report in what CNN’s Brian Stelter called on twitter “cutting a side deal with NYT.””
I’m very interested in the role of the NYT in keeping the public thinking the unraveling of this story is murky, technical, and boring rather than hilarious.
Can you give me some search terms to find more evidence for this side deal with NYT? URL’s require Richard’s moderation, so just some search terms would be faster.
4/8/2024 7:50 pm
A most entertaining 6 months of drama that has played itself out as you foresaw it Richard, with you always 1 step ahead of the pack. It took intelligence and guts - while everyone else was attacking the UVA “rape culture - to appear callous enough to question the story of a young woman who had endured a brutal attack. Your coverage of the story deserves more recognition than it will ever get, but a big “thank you” from those of us who follow your blog.
4/8/2024 8:03 pm
@1Phi Psi
“Ms Erdely interviewed me for the RS article (I was a UVa Phi Psi in ’84 when the Liz Seccuro event took place). Ultimately, Ms. Erdely did not publish any part of our conversation as it did not help her in her apparent efforts to tell the story she wanted to tell.”
Could we learn more details about this interview? According to Seccuro, she consulted with SRE from June to November 2014, and even talked with SRE the night before the RS hit piece appeared.
Seccuro later was quoted by the WaPo’s S. Hendrix, T.R. Shapiro, and M.P. Flaherty in an article on “UVa’s entrenched fraternity culture at tipping point” (November 29,2023)as follows:
” ‘It is apparent to me that gang rape Phi Kappa Psi was a tradition,’ Seccuro said.”
Since the ritualized gang-rape aspect of the narrative was cited as raising many doubts, and since several commentators have noted similarities between the LS and Jackie stories, any info 1Phi Psi could provide might yield fresh insights. The SRE narrative is obviously linked in some way to the LS narrative.
“
4/8/2024 8:55 pm
I thought I might bring in here a comment I had submitted to an opinion piece in the NY Times (which comment was, as is usual when criticizing the Times even implicitly, not published):
Think of all the recent stories that have been pushed and pushed by the media as exposing some great evil in our society, but which have fallen to pieces when exposed to a real investigative process: Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, UVA rape, and Ellen Pao.
Who proved right in all these cases?
Why the establishment authorities and organizations, and emphatically not the media.
What does it say about contemporary journalism that we would all be better off trusting the authorities, rather than the “journalists”, when it comes to controversial issues?
By long experience, I’ve gotten to a place where it is the police and their accounts I find vastly more reliable and trustworthy than the journalists and theirs.
How did this ever happen?
What could be more of a disgrace for journalism as it is currently practiced?
4/8/2024 8:57 pm
Great post. I agree 100%.
BTW: Noticed 3 spelling errors/typos, shown below.
1) “sitting back is his frat boy lair”
should be… “sitting back IN his frat boy lair”
2) “did not say that Erdely attributes to them”
should be… “did not say WHAT Erdely attributes to them”
3) “that maybe, must maybe, they were wrong about this”
should be… “that maybe, JUST maybe, they were wrong about this”
4/8/2024 9:46 pm
As a recent graduate of UVA and brother of Phi Kappa Psi, thank you Richard. I would let any of the men in my fraternity date my sister and I truly mean that. These are good people who were horribly mischaracterized and we appreciate your hard work.
4/8/2024 10:31 pm
What does it even mean that a subject would “withdraw her cooperation” from a story?
I’ve done some published journalism, though nothing with protagonists and antagonists (mostly nature pieces.) But if someone said “I don’t want you to quote me anymore because you’ve made me mad,” I don’t know that I’d have honored that request. I can understand why they needed Jackie’s cooperation up to a certain point in time. But after that, is there actually some concern that I’m not understanding?
4/8/2024 10:34 pm
>Think of all the recent stories that have been pushed and pushed by the media as exposing some great evil in our society, but which have fallen to pieces when exposed to a real investigative process: Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, UVA rape, and Ellen Pao.
Well, all except Trayvon Martin, who was on the property of his father, was being stalked, feared for his life, tried to defend himself and was shot by the lunatic in question.
4/8/2024 10:38 pm
Item 6) in the blog post, fifth par.-“Sabrina” is misspelled.
4/8/2024 11:01 pm
Re: Sabrina being lazy
The Wikipedia page on the UVA Rape Hoax says:
“Richard Bradley, editor-in-chief of Worth magazine, was the first mainstream journalist to question the Rolling Stone article, in a blog entry….
“It was later revealed Erdely had not interviewed any of the men accused of the rape. Erdely defended her decision not to interview the accused by explaining that the contact page on the fraternity’s website ‘was pretty outdated.’
“Washington Post media critic Erik Wemple rejected Erdely’s statement on why she had not interviewed the accused, explaining that the severity of the accusations she was reporting required ‘every possible step to reach out and interview them, including e-mails, phone calls, certified letters, FedEx letters, UPS letters and, if all of that fails, a knock on the door. No effort short of all that qualifies as journalism.'”
Why does he put knock on the door at the end as the last thing to do instead of the first?
These “drone reporters” are a disaster. Internet, Facebook, Skype and email reporters are a joke. All the online catfishing happened because Sabrina isn’t a shoe-leather reporter.
Steve Coll was asked at the press conference by a reporter if the fiasco was the result of Erdely spending so little time on site.
I don’t know if the problem was Sabrina is lazy, chicken, or simply didn’t want to find facts that got in the way of her story.
4/9/2024 12:10 am
#Victoria -I cant remember the basis of SRE’s claim that everyone knew who Drew was. I imagine she would attribute it to Jackie, but in her media appearances, her confidence in her knowledge of the campus seems to blossom.
4/9/2024 12:32 am
Troy, the odd thing about SRE’s quote that everyone on campus knew Drew’s identity isn’t where SRE got the idea.
It’s that if everybody on campus knew Drew’s identity, it should have been pretty easy for SRE to get Drew’s identity. Yet she is also saying that she had lengthy conversations with her editor about how difficult it was to verify anything. One or the other statement by SRE is an outright lie.
4/9/2024 12:56 am
Where does Jackie’s story end and SRE’s begin? Perhaps that distinction has been lost. To paraphrase SRE loosely from the SLATE podcast, I wasn’t at those interviews, who knows what was actually said?
4/9/2024 1:42 am
In response to Steve Sailer — take a look at CNN’s Brian Stelter’s tweet on April 6, timestamp 6:03AM for the reference to “Wenner and Dana talked to NYT days ago. some sort of side deal they struck.” Obviously, RS was trying to “front-run” the formal release of the report in an effort to spin/mitigate the damage — the very same cynical, ulterior practice that the Columbia report itself decried.
Bear in mind too that Stelter himself was the exclusive beneficiary of an embargoed copy of the Columbia report — another sort of PR ploy attempt. Stelter agreed not to disclose the source even as he denounced the overall journalism underhandedness at issue.
And it’s crucial to note the falsehood that both Columbia and RS are touting in their respective prefaces — that RS was “fully cooperative.” They demonstrably were not. Asked about the role of attorneys in vetting the story, they refused to answer. Even though RS and CJ cite the fact-checking as a specific failure, RS refused to allow the fact-checker to be named. Even though internal RS emails could shed light on the contradictory accounts by RS staff, those too were withheld from readers.
So these are the kind of journalism insider games these people were all playing, even as they lectured the public about transparency and accountability. Steve, if you’d like to discuss this directly, follow me on twitter and we can DM — at-JMacNYC
4/9/2024 1:47 am
From my understanding, before Richard Bradley or the WaPo’s story broke, many UVA students knew the story would be debunked in time. Initially, everyone at UVA were shocked. However, as the shock wore off, people on Grounds learned of the truth. IF it took non professional students just days to become skeptical, why did it take Erdley, a seasoned veteran, months to even have a suspicion? Originally, I thought it was about another overzealous reporter pushing an agenda. But it’s clearer now that it was about a publication driving profits from a made up sensational story. For Erdely, she received the fame she so desired. Just check out her social media. For RS, they received the clicks. And if anyone noticed, RS published a mail bag right after article. A mail bag that only praised the article … making it seemed like everyone agreed. The manipulation was egregious.
Originally, I wanted to believe Jackie so badly even if it was embellished. Something must have at least happened, right? Initially, I only questioned the journalistic integrity of Erdely and RS. “A heinous allegation against anonymous assailants by an anonymous victim supported by anonymous witnesses published in a national magazine.” Just think about how ridiculous that sounds. Everyone walked on eggshells around the alleged victim. We wanted to be sensitive. Yes, there are assholes everywhere who disregard sexual assaults. But there far more sons of mothers, brothers of sisters, fathers of daughters, uncles of nieces … who really CARE. And as Bradley said, if you don’t care, shame on you. The myth most men don’t care has to stop! Just because someone questions, doesn’t make them monsters. It only shows they care! People who don’t care, don’t respond. Indifference is bad!
My brother was a Phi Psi at another University. He called me when the article hit the web knowing I went to graduate schools at UVA. He was distraught. Although he was a Phi Psi at a UVA peer, he felt like he was accused of being a rapist because Erdely claimed it was institutional. When one is falsely accused, even when implied, it’s devastating. He cared! The Phi Psi knew cared.
I’m not going to say UVA doesn’t have its share of problems, but it’s like any other college. Yes, things need to improve, along with every other college campus. Instead of pointing fingers at certain stereotypes, how about figuring out the real cause of sexual assaults. Find a solution. Isn’t rampant use of drug and alcohol A major catalyst? Sure, there are unrelated assaults … but those sociopaths will attack regardless of the situation or location. And in regards to sexual assault investigations / process on college campuses, isn’t the biggest issue the reform of Title IX and FERPA? Sometimes, I don’t think the media cares to find the real issues … they just want to find the most sensational stories and push the bottomline. It’s dangerous and destroys the reputation of many innocent people. Even if proven innocent, where do they go to get their name back?
4/9/2024 2:10 am
… and since we are in typo-fixing mode now 😉
In your numbered list, there are two items “10”, so you’ll want to renumber them so that you get 14 items in total. Also, subheads 11 through 14 should be bolded like the others.
4/9/2024 2:13 am
@ryan
You are mistaken about the facts. Testimony in the trial exonerated GZ, which is why he was found not guilty.
4/9/2024 6:32 am
Not every Rolling stone reporter is the same! This characterization is what messed everything up to begin with. Yes the magazine will survive. People read it for reasons other than its journalism and thankfully the magazine has enough wits to avoid publishing an Erderly fly by whatever piece anytime soon, unless it is “how i messed up: my beliefs and agenda screwed everyone over. If i checked a few biases i would have done something else. I hurt a lot of innocent people including frat members. You guys were right”. Not happening.
There are so many examples of this - it is a simple lack of care and a manufacture of speculaton, which erderly then reported as fact. Once she believed the lie she threw together a narrative to protect the belief. We as humans do this - usually every time we dont actually check. It is called making stuff up.
The difference is when doing a piece like this you expect some standad of evidence, not single sourced journalism based on curveball. Phone calls. Cell phone records SOMETHING.
4/9/2024 6:39 am
Erderly was afraid of Drew. Frankenstein is formidable!
Obviously Jackie turned Drew into not just a monster but a psyhopath that Erderly was no match for. And Jackie was right. The fictitios Drew was so powerful he upended a fraternity system, smashed a university and then went national and global in an all out quest to scare senators and other universities into revisiting their assault policies in the event Drew has a network . That was what i heard anyways.
Fear does a l ot of weird things.
The story of Jackie’s story and Drew’s impact is a good yet bad one. How Drew and the failure to bring Drew to justice drew everyone into a mess!
4/9/2024 7:49 am
At Instapundit:
USUALLY, IN A JOURNALISTIC FRAUD OR PLAGIARISM SCANDAL, THE FIRST CASE YOU FIND OUT ABOUT IS JUST THE FIRST CASE YOU FIND OUT ABOUT:
Ashe Schow: Has the Rolling Stone gang-rape author EVER corroborated a story?
In the wake of Rolling Stone’s refusal to fire the author behind its now-retracted and now infamous University of Virginia gang-rape story, one has to wonder if this is a rare mistake or a pattern of behavior.
There are some big hints that it is the latter.
Sabrina Rubin Erdely, the author in question, actually has a history of writing articles based solely on one person’s account, with no indication that she even tried to corroborate the story or hear any other potential side. . . .
Every story Erdely writes begins the same way — with a story about her main source’s experience written as if Erdely witnessed it herself. From there the article only seeks to bolster the source’s account — all with a credulity that lends itself more to fiction writing than journalism.
The question is whether Rolling Stone will do what the New Republic did in the wake of the Stephen Glass controversy — that is, to review Erdely’s past work and decide whether she should continue to be trusted as an author.
4/9/2024 8:01 am
As I’ve mentioned, I used to do freelance fact checking for Rolling Stone quite a few years back. As was the case in other magazines, you didn’t read passages of the story directly to the subject but you were always required to contact them and paraphrase what was in the story. It is INCONCEIVABLE that Erdely didn’t give the details of the “rape” to the fraternity at all. How did the Rolling Stone attorneys permit this? Wondering also why the fraternity didn’t ask her for more details- date, person? Or- did they? And did Erdely not respond to their requests for more details? Anyone know the answer to this?
4/9/2024 8:05 am
The direction this case is taking reminds me of the Ray Rice case. Everyone knew Rice screwed up, but the attempt to minimize his culpability outraged the public and resulted in an even greater penalty than would have satisfied critics originally. And instead of showing the institution was capable of acting responsibly it ruined its credibility for the foreseeable future.
4/9/2024 8:56 am
Hmmmm-
The piece you referenced, “Rolling Stone retraction a rare blemish for journalist Sabrina Rubin Ertely” seems to have buried the lede in a very literal sense… the author never really says what those ‘rare’ blemishes were.
The AP used to be the gold standard in reporting. Now I’m not even sure that you can call what they do ‘reporting’.
4/9/2024 9:31 am
Excellent piece. Sharing!
4/9/2024 9:44 am
Victoria-
I cannot tell if Phi Psi requested additional information but they did make clear to Erdley that they didn’t know what she was taking about. This is from the CJS report:
Last October, as she was finishing her story, Erdely emailed Stephen Scipione, Phi Kappa Psi’s local chapter president. “I’ve become aware of allegations of gang rape that have been made against the UVA chapter of Phi Kappa Psi,” Erdely wrote. “Can you comment on those allegations?”
It was a decidedly truncated version of the facts that Erdely believed she had in hand. She did not reveal Jackie’s account of the date of the attack. She did not reveal that Jackie said Phi Kappa Psi had hosted a “date function” that night, that prospective pledges were present or that the man who allegedly orchestrated the attack was a Phi Kappa Psi member who was also a lifeguard at the university aquatic center. Jackie had made no request that she refrain from providing such details to the fraternity.
The university’s administration had recently informed Phi Kappa Psi that it had received an account of a sexual assault at the fraternity that had reportedly taken place in September 2012. Erdely knew that the fraternity had received a briefing from UVA but did not know its specific contents. In fact, in this briefing, Scipione said in a recent interview, UVA provided a mid-September date as the night of the assault – not Sept. 28. And the briefing did not contain the details that Jackie had provided Erdely. The university said only that according to the account it had received, a freshman woman had been drinking at a party, had gone upstairs and had been forced to have oral sex with multiple men.
On Oct. 15, Scipione replied to Erdely’s request for comment. He had learned, he wrote to her by email, “that an individual who remains unidentified had supposedly reported to someone who supposedly reported to the University that during a party there was a sexual assault.” He added, “Even though this allegation is fourth hand and there are no details and no named accuser, the leadership and fraternity as a whole have taken this very seriously.”
Erdely next telephoned Shawn Collinsworth, then Phi Kappa Psi’s national executive director. Collinsworth volunteered a summary of what UVA had passed on to the fraternity’s leaders: that there were allegations of “gang rape during Phi Psi parties” and that one assault “took place in September 2012.”
Erdely asked him, according to her notes, “Can you comment?”
If Erdely had provided Scipione and Collinsworth the full details she possessed instead of asking simply for “comment,” the fraternity might have investigated the facts she presented. After Rolling Stone published, Phi Kappa Psi said it did just that. Scipione said in an interview that a review of the fraternity’s social media archives and bank records showed that the fraternity had held no date function or other party on the night Jackie said she was raped. A comparison of fraternity membership rolls with aquatic center employment records showed that it had no members who worked as lifeguards, Scipione added.
Erdely said Scipione had seemed “really vague,” so she focused on getting a reply from Collinsworth. “I felt that I gave him a full opportunity to respond,” she said. “I felt very strongly that he already knew what the allegations were because they’d been told by UVA.” As it turned out, however, the version of the attack provided to Phi Kappa Psi was quite different from and less detailed than the one Jackie had provided to Erdely.
Scipione said that Rolling Stone did not provide the detailed information the fraternity required to respond properly to the allegations. “It was complete bullshit,” he said. “They weren’t telling me what they were going to write about. They weren’t telling me any dates or details.” Collinsworth said that he was also not provided the details of the attack that ultimately appeared in Rolling Stone.
4/9/2024 9:55 am
It was Erdely who was DELIBERATELY vague - not Scipione.
4/9/2024 12:06 pm
This is the response Phi Psi gave to SRE:
“Even though this allegation is fourth hand and there are NO DETAILS AND NO NAMED ACCUSER, the leadership and fraternity as a whole have taken this very seriously.”
(emphasis mine)
The only way SRE could take this response as “really vague” (her words) is if she had already concluded that Phi Psi KNEW a rape had occurred — including the specific details — and were simply being coy to the reporter. On the other hand, if Phi Psi DID NOT KNOW about the rape (which obviously they did not, since there was no rape), then there is absolutely nothing “vague” about this response.
Thus, either Erdely (1) blindly believed Jackie’s story to the point that confirmation (or rebuttal) was unnecessary; or (2) deliberately did not seek confirmation or rebuttal, for fear it would undermine her narrative.
4/9/2024 12:11 pm
BTW, for anyone who didn’t see Jon Stewart’s bit on this whole fiasco last night, it’s worth watching. Although he does drop in the obligatory “rape is a real problem and universities should do more to deal with it”, he proceeds to excoriate Rolling Stone for taking no action against anyone involved in the fake story.
4/9/2024 12:17 pm
@ Elephant
When SRE called me, she told me that LS had given her my name! I received a subpoena to testify in a hearing, so my name is available if someone looks up the court records.
I saw LS walk into Will Beebe’s room. He opened the door. She walked in. There was no pushing or shoving and she did not appear to be in distress. I testified to other facts and there were other witnesses who provided written statements. Shortly thereafter, the Commonwealth Attorney offered a plea deal to Mr. Beebe - presumably with LS’s approval.
I conveyed the same info to SRE and told her that I believed Beebe was innocent. SRE said “He was convicted!”. While that is true, it doesn’t begin to tell the whole story.
LS went from “I remember every detail…” to “I have a right to know what happened to me…” Based on information that came out in the hearing, LS knows that she was not gang raped but she maintains this story for whatever reasons she may have.
At the end of the day, SRE “didn’t have room” to print any of my interview (she called me the night before the article was released to let me know this).
I suspect that SRE and LS were teaming up in an attempt to bring down the evil, blonde, tanned and toned, privileged, white, fraternity, misogynist pigs. LS was telling SRE exactly what she wanted to hear… and I bet SRE subjected her input to the same rigorous journalistic standards for which she is now famous.
wrt the pending law suit - I don’t care if we win or lose. I believe Phi Psi has an OBLIGATION to bring a suit against the magazine and/or the author. We had no choice in being singled out and falsely accused of a heinous crime in such a public manner. And the more I read about the evolution of the “rape culture” (that term in particular), the more I think somebody has to insist on some factual information, honesty, and accountability.
One more thing… reading SRE’s articles and reviews on the military “rape culture” and the Catholic Church “rape culture” makes me angry. She has gotten away with this “drive-by journalism” before. This practice needs to stop.
4/9/2024 12:25 pm
I wonder if Jackie Coakley and Martha Coakley (of the infamous Massachusetts child abuse abuses) are related? It seems they share a similar predilection for making false accusations.
4/9/2024 12:48 pm
Sabrina is either really dumb, or truly arrogant and evil. Never mind that as previously noted the nonpology read more like blameshifting and a litany of her woes. She really does’t get that at the end of the day she maligned the Phi Kappa Psi brothers, and could have caused real harm if her story hadn’t fallen apart so quickly.
She doesn’t get that one day it could be her son waking up in the middle of the night with a brick thrown though his window because some shoddy, irresponsible author (let’s face it, journalist does not fit her) accused him of rape. Hopefully he won’t go to class only to face the rapeshaming, or go to work wondering who knows what he was accused of. Or maybe come home to her at Thanks giving where Sabrina is quizzing him about the alleged rape, wondering why anyone would make it up in the belief that a national magazine would never risk publishing something so wrong. Hopefully her daughter won’t quit talking to her son because she thinks he’s a rapist, or family won’t disinvite them.
And BTW, at this point I’m banking on deception. She claims not knowing ahead of time, but as noted her statements to the press, which contradict her statements to CSJ, indicate that at best she was misleading the public. At some point, she got it and she should have come out with a retraction herself.
And RS actually apologized to the boys, even if too little too late, and even if no heads rolling is bullshit. They knew who had the best lawsuit. My best guess, is she still thinks that these privileged white frat boys are rapists. Too bad she didn’t at least spy on the frat house. There is money, but she would have seen a few beaters in the parking lot, and African Americans, Asian Americans and Hispanics. But that would go against her bias, and she would think that these were merely the servants hired by the privileged white frat boys.
She is a piece of work.
4/9/2024 1:28 pm
1PhiPsi, thank you for sharing what should be intriguing, if not highly suspicious information.
I’m amazed that apparently Erdely spoke with both you and LS right before the release of the RS screed. This might be what RS regarded as “corroboration” for its fabulistissimo gang-rape meme.
4/9/2024 1:34 pm
Remember the old saying about nothing being so bad that there isn’t some good in it? This fiasco actually opens up a new door for Sabrina as it hopefully closes an old one…
With her absolute belief and non-judgmental attitude towards any rape claimant, she could become part of the support network for them.
4/9/2024 1:43 pm
I was at UVa from 83 to 90. Never heard the Rugby Road song. I read the RS article the day it came out and from the fight song lyrics to the “toned, tanned and blonde” comment, I didn’t even have to get to the glass table to know the story was bs. I wonder who gave SRE those lyrics? And where did she come up with the idea that there are sounds of people “hoo”ing at night out the fraternity windows? Kudos to Mr. Reynolds for speaking out on this first, to the three friends who came forward, to the UVa administrators who are also fighting back unlike Theresa Sullivan, who threw the whole school under the bus.
4/9/2024 1:49 pm
Austin,
We absolutely must not excuse Stewart’s and other journalists’ “obligatory” comments on the university rape problem, no matter how hard they come down on Erdely and Rolling Stone.
The belief system behind this “obligatory” mention is precisely what we should be up in arms over, and is causing immense damage. Excoriating RS and a successful lawsuit by the fraternity is not enough.
I’ve already commented on this here, so sorry for going on and on about this, but it’s just so important. Most journalists are either uncritically adhering to the belief in a campus rape “epidemic” caused by “rape culture”, or else they are too chicken to critically examine the claims of academics, activists, governing bodies, and also other journalists who have established these beliefs as facts. (I believe it’s partly because the industry is so shaky that it’s a major professional risk for journalists to go against the tide. However, Jon Stewart does not face job insecurity, so I’m giving him the stink-eye.)
Belief that sexual assault and rape are rampant, systemic, and condoned in universities is creating illiberal, anti-intellectual higher education, the scariest kind of oxymoron. It is eroding the civil and due process rights of the accused, and if that wasn’t bad already, legal measures and widely taught academic studies have expanded the meaning of sexual assault and rape to include innocuous sexual behavior. Just look at the affirmative consent laws passed in hundreds of schools. This is a cliche, but it truly is Orwellian. So we must not give a pass to “obligatory” mentions of “rape is a real problem and universities should do more to deal with it”, because the belief system behind it should concern us every bit as much as journalistic fraud, if not more.
4/9/2024 2:00 pm
Sabrina’s best way to recover may be to write a full assault on the 25% Rape Myth. In Rolling Stone.
4/9/2024 2:02 pm
@Pietus,
“Instead of pointing fingers at certain stereotypes, how about figuring out the real cause of sexual assaults. Find a solution. Isn’t rampant use of drug and alcohol A major catalyst?”
You make the mistake of assuming that what SRE and others like her care about is preventing rape. Look at her sneering descriptions of “overwhelmingly blonde, tanned students”. Ethnic animus is her motivation, and her article was a kind of blood libel against white gentile men.
4/9/2024 2:07 pm
Sabrina Doesn’t Get It-
Your post brought tears to my eyes. I have often wondered how Sabrina would feel if it were her son experiencing this pain. You can add to his distress that his grades suffered significantly during this incredibly stressful time, he received death threats online, his little brother’s friends kept asking if his brother was a rapist, and at Thanksgiving he had to face not only his mother but his grandmother as well. At Christmas, things weren’t much better, imagine how everytime Sabrina’s son got together with his high school friends, they indicated that something must have happened to Jackie, even if it wasn’t exactly as described on the article.
By the way, Sabrina’s son could have very well experienced all of this embarrassment and distress even if he was in high school at the time of the “alleged gang rape.” Since Sabrina said gang rape was part of Phi Psi’s initiation, all members of the fraternity were deemed to be guilty by their peers, professors and the University.
Forgive me if I do not have much sympathy for Sabrina even if the past few months have been “among the most painful” of HER life.
4/9/2024 2:17 pm
Mistyped: Kudos to Mr. BRADLEY (and Mr. Reynolds, Mr. Sailer and all the others who kept and are keeping the drum beating)
4/9/2024 2:22 pm
Thank you, Richard, for sharing your analysis. If anyone is interested in what is actually happening, they really ought to use the link to Dean Groves letter to CJS (which Richard provides in his item #10 (the “first” #10)).
Within that letter is a reference to a Youtube video of a board meeting that discusses how UVa is approaching the issues. The whole 120 minutes is helpful, but in particular, minutes 24-37, and then the last 30 minutes at the end (the student panel) represent what is actually happening.
The link can be found by Googling “BOV Student Affairs & Athletics Committee with Full Board - September 12, 2014″
With the depth of their research, policy work, and programming, the UVA administration (and student leaders) can hardly be ‘indifferent.” Quite the contrary, they are clearly determined.
While I respect the professional opinion of CJS, they have it wrong this time. Confirmation bias is a woefully inadequate description to explain what is clearly better labeled as lying.
4/9/2024 2:29 pm
Richard,
I do need to take issue with one element of your analysis (which is otherwise excellent, and you still deserve credit for bringing this fraud to light in the first place). You take issue with the characterization of your original blog post in which your questioning the veracity of the RS article is characterized as “speculative” (in the Columbia Report). You take issue with this and offer an elaborate defense of why that blog post was not speculative, defending that the journalism was shoddy from the outset. Unfortunately, I think you have confounded two issues-the quality of the journalistic process, and the factual truth of the content of the article.
Your criticism that the journalism was not “speculative” it failed to follow basic journalistic best practices, and this could be known from anyone reading the article with a journalist background.
However, your original suspicion that the rape depicted in the article might be a hoax can (and should) be categorized as “speculative”. It was based on your intuition as a journalist and difficulty lining up the narrative. To me, qualifying that these suspicions are “speculative” is not only appropriate but laudatory, because you took the care to do exactly what SRE did not, namely, be clear that you were not calling Jackie’s sorry a hoax, but rather “speculating” that it might be a hoax and detailing why (for which you were initially vilified but stood your ground). It was this “speculation” that led other reporters to also give the article closer scrutiny and eventually the problems with the story went from speculative to conclusive.
Had you immediately characterized the events depicted in the original article as patently false you would have been just as irresponsible a journalist as SRE because at that point there was no way to know for certain whether “Jackie’s” story was true or not. But you chose to speculate that the story might not be true. Just replace speculate with hypothesize and it sounds better
4/9/2024 2:44 pm
The Geoff Mulvihill AP story on her is another example of SRE’s spin machine…a similar work of hagiography appeared in the Philadelphia News right after the whole RS story came unglued- with personal friends and longtime contacts or former employers offering up glowing assessments of her work or in this case “dogged” reputation as a journalist.
It’s vomit-inducing stuff…once again- people want to defend the indefensible while looking past the clearly emerging questions about her past work.
To Geoff Mulvihill- such a lazy, dishonest puff piece. You made zero effort to speak to any of the critics of her performance…or to someone directly impacted by her perfidy. You and the editor who greenlighted your garbage article ought to be embarrassed in yourselves. Media sycophants closing ranks- so morally bankrupt. Shame!
4/9/2024 3:24 pm
To She Really Doesn’t Get it: I am not certain but it sounds like your son was in the fraternity. If so, I am very, very sorry.
4/9/2024 4:46 pm
ProfinVA,
You’re missing the point.
Yes, of course a component of Richard’s original post was “speculative”. But what Richard is arguing here is that that characterization doesn’t capture the real import of that post, which was NOT speculative as to the clear journalistic failures in the RS article.
Obviously, this is an important distinction. No journalist would feel obliged, necessarily, to wonder whether the story was true; but every journalist worthy of the name should have noted the egregious deficiencies in the reporting.
4/9/2024 6:18 pm
This Mulvihill article, it’s like a joke. I can’t get my head around it. Does he work for one of those services that you pay to restore your online reputation? Is he doing this out of friendship with SRE? No actual reporter would write this, I almost think he’s trolling us.
4/9/2024 7:13 pm
Candid_Observer,
I have a different interpretation of the chain of events, though I have certainly misunderstood issues before. Anyway, I think we concur that Mr. Bradley has engaged in an excellent bit of journalism and has done a great service to the UVA community (and especially the members of the fraternity so maligned). I would like to see him given a larger podium from which to speak.
4/9/2024 8:43 pm
While I am hesitant to make such a childish observation amongst the substantive and thoughtful discourse here… I can’t resist. SRE could be text lingo for “sorry”… Sss-R-Eee.
I’m sre to trouble u good pple
4/9/2024 9:27 pm
Richard, thank-you just thank-you. Your critical insight provided that voice of reason we needed as a context for our doubts and concerns about the RS article.
4/9/2024 9:45 pm
The Comedy of Errors
After the lesson in how not to write a story on college rape; we get a lesson in how not to apologize; how not to accept responsibility; and now how not to rehab your reputation.
4/9/2024 9:53 pm
Why should SRE apologize to Phi Psi? After all, according to the Columbia report the fraternity was “collateral damage.”
4/9/2024 10:03 pm
1PhiPsi,
Thank you for standing up, for standing up for all of us. I worried that y’all wouldn’t sue, and this would simply slip from memory. I worried that they would simply get away with this, this contemptible fraud.
Fraternities may not be popular institutions, nothing elitist ever will, but we are not the monsters they make us out to be.
Thank you,
CS
4/10/2024 12:50 am
@ Current Student
We (Phi Psi members) are not monolithic by any stretch of the imagination. I was also worried that we wouldn’t bring suit! There are so many PC ramifications that are worthy of consideration. Even so, I believe we had no acceptable alternative. Ultimately, it was up to the current brotherhood and their advisors to make the decision.
I’m not sure how the membership has evolved since I was there but “elitist” would not have been a word used to describe the folks who lived in the house when I did To be fair, there were some members with wealthy parents, but many of us had part time jobs to help get the bills paid.
Thanks for your compliments and all the best in your studies!
4/10/2024 2:46 am
Thanks to all those who have noted the lies Erdely and Dana and Woods told in media appearances after publication wherein they claim to know the identities of Drew and his merry band of ritual rapists and Erdeley also claims to have talked to all Jackie’s friends - the same friends the WaPo was able to track down in days once they began re- reporting Erdeley’s train wreck ( or train crash as it were; I’m not convinced her negligent reporting wasn’t deliberate after reading her previous work; not doing any fact checking or confirmation seems to be her preferred modus operandus for committing libel.)
Amazes me none of the rape culture cheerleaders who interviewed the RS crew said “Wait, you know who the brutally violent gang rapers are and you’re just gonna let them stay anonymous on that campus so they can keep gang raping?”That would be the normal reaction from a journalist, not to mention a rape victims’ advocate I’d think. But they didn’t that I’m aware of. Why it’s almost like the outlets they chose to interview with knew it was a hyped up charade and there weren’t any crazed rapists on the loose.
I wish we could get the media clips all in one place and storify the clips interspersed with what SRE and her editors said to Columbia when they finally admitted they’d done virtually no reporting at all before defaming those frat guys, University administrators, the Dean of Students and Jackie’s slutqueen friend.
(BTW, what kind of ‘ women’s advocate’ smears a young woman as a cold-blooded slut in the pages of an international magazine without bothering to meet her first to verify that her skanky reputation might be even slightly true?)
I’ve been reading SRE’s other work and it is pretty clear to me also as others here have noted that she has had it in for the Catholic Church for most of her career (although I don’t know enough about blood libel to say what qualifies, the casually bigoted slurs she uses to vilify that religion just take your breath away and her accusations are as thinly sourced by unreliable witnesses as her UVA story) but it’s possible as someone above also said given her creepy comments about the overwhelmingly blonde campus and such that she nurtures some real animosity against Gentiles generally. Definitely worth continuing to investigate, she and her enablers really need to be exposed if this is an orchestrated campaign.
And about Geoff Mulvihill over at the AP…lol. What can you say about that schmuck? I sure hope he got at least something out of permanently wrecking his reputation as a legitimate ‘journalist’ by putting out that embarrassing apologia. It takes a special kind of sociopath to callously minimize the horrific damage Erdely’s done to other people’s lives all her career with her massive web of fraud and lies and paint *her* as the saintly, noble victim. Just wow.That other journalists still speak of her glowingly after all that is known does not speak well for the state of US journalism either.
4/10/2024 3:16 am
OMG. Just read that Josef has earlier pointed out here that Sean Woods claimed in an interview to have spoken with ‘Drew’ which means he met…. Haven Monahan!
Gee, I wonder if he can tell us if Haven is as dreamy as Jackie said he was!
And this paragon of journalistic integrity is still at Rolling Stone and virtually no other members of our esteemed US press corps are calling for his head as they surely would if some corporate titan or Republican politician had tried to pull off a comparable fraud in their own professions. Journos are as crooked as the mob,they protect their own. Disgusting.
4/10/2024 3:18 am
Present company excepted, of course.
4/10/2024 6:12 am
In an interview with Rolling Stone contributing editor Anthony deCurtis back in 2012, Erdeley said she did a profile of Michelle Schocked just by cutting and pasting and lifting passages from other people’s stories about Shocked. She also said that after the story was printed Shocked’s husband called her up and said that everything in her piece was wrong.
There’s a video of the interview online.
Very informative for anyone planning to fact check her stories.
She also claims that the very first story she ever did was about a university professor who had enslaved a female student in an s&m relationship. She said that she was going to do the story ” no matter what” - even without the professor’s side of the story. Then she says that the professor agreed to an interview , at a restaurant. Curiously, Erdely tells deCurtis and the audience that she knew the professor had done something wrong with the student because in the interview the professor looked down her shirt! She mentions the looking- down -her -shirt incident a couple of times.
4/10/2024 7:10 am
People should read the story about Dana at Middlebury College referenced above. In it he clearly says that the truth is a minor concern and that presenting their (his and his associates) view of the world is paramount. In that light, and with Wenner presumably sharing that view and perhaps even dictating it, RS not firing or disciplining any involved in the UVA disaster is hardly surprising.
4/10/2024 8:01 am
Mrs Haven Monahan
4/10/2024 3:16 am
OMG. Just read that Josef has earlier pointed out here that Sean Woods claimed in an interview to have spoken with ‘Drew’ which means he met…. Haven Monahan!
A Chevron type fraud and RICO civil case against Rolling Stone is looking more and more possible. If there are any emails from this moron there may be a conspiracy to defame and libel for material gain. The editors were in on it but how far. What was in the contract with Erdely and the outline proposal. Is she her own agent? They thought they could get away with it because they have done it before.
4/10/2024 9:12 am
Coll & Co described their RS endeavor as “journalism about journalism.” A more accurate description might be “journalism about journalism in a Post-Journalism Era.”
4/10/2024 9:39 am
“She profiled Michelle Shocked, a born again Christian, and was called by none other than Shocked’s husband.
“Michelle Shocked’s husband called at my house… calling to tell me that he had read the story and just about everything in the story was wrong,” Erdely said.
“Was that true?” Erdely’s interviewer asked. “It actually was true [that just about everything in the story was wrong],” Erdely replied.
Erdely missed Shocked’s press conference and then went to archived media sources to fill in the rest of the story. She “fused” the story together.
“I went to the library and pulled up tons of clips on her, borrowed whatever I could find. I just borrowed whatever facts I could find. It turns out that those facts which were in mainstream publications and magazines were not actually factual. Which completely shocked me. I just assumed those were real and legit but they were not at all.”
Winning that college award was taken by Erdely as a “sign from God” that she should be a journalist instead of a psychiatrist.”
fathersmanifesto.net/sabrina_rubin_erdely
watch?v=v7WGo6ktkaE
4/10/2024 9:53 am
When all is said and done, there are two real stories: (1) someone falsely accused a UVA fraternity of gang rape (2) SRE did a horrendous job reporting (likely intentionally).
If one of the main stories here is a false accusation of a serious crime that made national headlines and caused serious reputational harm to the accused, why isn’t the person who made the false accusation being named?
I am completely onboard with protecting the identities of victims or potential victims, but in this case it is clear that Jackie is not a victim of the crime she alleged. So if the real story is that a false accusation was made, why not name the principal involved in the false accusation?
Richard - I’d love to hear your perspective on this unique set of circumstances from the standpoint of a journalist.
4/10/2024 10:21 am
Lyn -
That’s a good point. The problem is, lies are rarely as thoroughly debunked as Jackie’s have been. In a closer call, who gets to decide that an accuser is “lying” such that her (or his) identity gets exposed to the whole world?
Because there is no universal arbiter of truth, ANYONE who makes an accusation is at risk of her account being called a “lie”, and being publicly labeled as a psycho or a hoax. Even truthful victims will be rationally reluctant to come forward.
Weighing the good and bad, as a prophylactic measure I support the shielding of identities of rape accusers even if their stories are probably untrue.
4/10/2024 10:45 am
So it’s clear, I’m not trying to call out anyone on this board for doxxing Jackie. She lost all right to “rape victim” confidentiality when it turned out the person she was accusing did not even exist. But like I said, this is an exceptional case.
4/10/2024 10:54 am
Largely unremarked upon here or anywhere is how many people seem perfectly okay with the notion that between 2 and 8% of rape accusations are false, and more than that, they feel that those are small numbers and not worth worrying about.
Ignoring the fact that in many areas of life 2% is considered a material percentage (meaning significant), and that a low percentage of a very large number yields a big number on its own, let’s play a game of substitution:
In place of the trope about privileged white males, substitute gay and/or black. Does anyone really believe that 2% would be considered a small number in that context?
4/10/2024 11:18 am
Thank you for reaffirming more narrow world view with the fact an article was written, and researched poorly instead of dealing with facts. Your awesome!!!
4/10/2024 11:37 am
If I were Nicole Eramo, I would be suing, too. From the CJR report:
And contrary to the quote attributed to me in Rolling Stone, I have never called the University of Virginia “the rape school,” nor have I ever suggested — either professionally or privately — that parents would not “want to send their daughter” to UVA. As a UVA alumna, and as someone who has lived in the Charlottesville community for over 20 years, I have a deep and profound love for this University and the students who study here.”
___
What administrator would ever say that to a journalist? I suspect Erdely just made this up. And if she did,she clearly has gone off the rails. How many others had quotes misattributed to them in Erdely’s career?
4/10/2024 11:58 am
Remember - Rolling Stone has already admitted negligence in the UVA Rape Story through the CSJ Review. You have to ask yourself why they did it. They’re not as dumb as you think.
There are only a certain number of people who are eligible to sue Rolling Stone. The toughest case will be the Phi Psi. Even if they litigate individually and win, it will be tough to put a restitution number. And Virginia’s punitive payout is capped (if filed there). The Deans and Three friends have a much better case. But even then, restitution will be tough to calculate. It will most likely have to be done through presumed damages.
So you go back to the question of negligence or recklessness (malice). This will be the biggest point of contention for the jury: was Rolling Stone highly skeptical of Jackie before the article went to print? If you noticed, the CSJ Review was clear to point out that this article was about “honest” reporters becoming careless with proper journalistic protocol. Richard Bradley questions that logic. He implies Erdely lied (she had to be a moron not have known earlier) and just comes short of calling Dana and Woods a liar.
RS is keeping Dana, Woods, Erdely, et all under their control. If any of their employees crack and admit that they were highly skeptical prior to print, the company will be in serious trouble. That’s why Erdely made it a point to say she started to doubt after print. RS also dismissed the authority of the fact checkers … saying they weren’t the decision makers. It’s obvious how they are positioning themselves.
The CSJ Review was nothing more than an exercise to position RS in court while appearing contrite to the public. It really said nothing that we knew already. They’ll concede negligence and pay a limited amount through liability insurance. That’s manageable. But IF they’re guilty of defamation with intent, that’s a different story for the jury.
4/10/2024 12:20 pm
What I am saying is that RS used the CSJ Review as a dress rehearsal for their days in court. It’s obvious.
Three points to highlight:
* Concedes it was an “honest” mistake … isolated negligence due to misunderstanding & deference to the alleged rape victim.
* Is clear to point out that they doubted Jackie after the publication. Erdely goes out of her way to state this (2 days after).
* The ultimate decision to publish came down to the editors. They make it clear the fact checkers had no power. Thus, it will come down to Woods and Dana. Much easier to manage.
4/10/2024 12:25 pm
A University of Virginia fraternity will not pursue an honor code violation against a student who told Rolling Stone that several brothers gang-raped her during a party, a story that has since been retracted, a spokesman said.
I would have made a different decision. The lion’s share of culpability for these events goes to Erdely, Rolling Stone editors, and the rape hysterics trying to capitalize on the story. But Jackie was one of these hysterics using lies to defame people she didn’t like. This went on for years.
The fact that others raised the profile doesn’t absolve her of these misdeeds.
4/10/2024 12:29 pm
Following on Piteus:
Was the CJS review an insider industry con? The more I think about what they did and didn’t discuss, the more that’s the way it looks.
This adds an important new chapter to this strange, post-journalistic story. It isn’t just, “What actually happened at Rolling Stone?”
Now we have a second question: “What happened inside CJS?”
4/10/2024 1:37 pm
@bob somerby
I’m not going to go that far. Mr. Coll is a well respected journalist. I’m sure like any human being, he has his biases. However, RS limited his scope of the investigation to the Jackie’s story and nothing else. I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure the RS lawyers requested it. The lawyer should be fired if they didn’t. Hence, if you’re limited to that scope … there’s not much CSJ can do except that story. They couldn’t request information anything outside of that.
I believe CSJ did the best they could with the Boundaries agreed upon … but I wish they were more transparent with what was agreed upon.
More importantly, every reporter / every employee of Rolling Stone will have their credibility questioned going forward. Rolling Stone is a progressive magazine that supposedly champions the powerless / voiceless. They go against the status quo like Wall Street, the police, university admin, etc. RS attacks them for a lack of accountability, integrity, and transparency. Guess what? Jann Wenner, Will Dana, Sean Woods, and other RS execs have proved they lack integrity, accountability, and transparency. How can any writer with journalistic integrity work for such hypocrites. These are the exact people who they say they fight against. They have NO credibility. For them, it’s cash > integrity. Their actions are disappointing to witness.
4/10/2024 2:09 pm
When was the last date that SRE commented publicly about the RS story (disregarding of course her statements to the Columbia reviewers)?
Wasn’t there skepticism about the failure to contact key actors in the narrative for their side of the story BEFORE it became clear that Jackie’s story had unraveled?
Future analysts of this spectacle will surely need a detailed timeline to assist in keeping all of this in proper sequence.
4/10/2024 2:12 pm
While Rolling Stone has taken it down, the original story can be found here:
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119
4/10/2024 2:34 pm
I want to almost want to say it’s the slate.com podcast on Dec. 2nd. Listen to that podcast if you haven’t. You can tell it was unraveling and she was trying to change the subject. She was shocked that people were focusing on Jackie and not the her narrative / agenda of the article. IMO, she knew about the credibility of Jackie well before it was published. She was dumb enough to believe people would overlook the inconsistencies of Jackie to focus on her narrative. What a doofus.
Sean Woods, her editor, came out a couple days later to confirm her trust in RS’ editorial process and on Erdely. Now it’s coming out that he wanted Erdely to vet the story a bit further. His career is over.
4/10/2024 3:06 pm
^ His career is only over if his superiors actually decide to hold him accountable. So far, there has been no indication they intend to do so.
4/10/2024 3:22 pm
First of all, thank you so much for your crucial role in exonerating the innocent.
As an attorney, I do not fault RS for maintaining the attorney client privilege of their legal counsel. That privilege is rarely voluntarily waived, and I certainly would have advised them to maintain it, if I were their counsel.
As for the criticism of CSJ, their scope was to audit which internal controls failed and to recommend changes. They did an excellent job. They were not retained to do an expose piece on RS, and the even, professional tone of their findings does not in my mind call their findings into question.
I am intrigued, though, by your noting the failure to dig beyond Jackie’s lies. It is fairly easy to see how a well-meaning SRE and crew could have put on well-meaning blinders and chalked Jackie’s failures to trauma, and UVA administrators gentle denials as stonewalling. It is harder to explain how she could so horribly misquote UVA administrators, as well as other non-Jackie related falsehoods, without deliberate intent to falsify her article. Those inconsistencies may also have an explanation, but CSJ/ RS does not provide one.
4/10/2024 3:51 pm
UVA Alumna,
I don’t agree that they did an excellent job. Richard and others here have already raised valid points that call into question how honest Erdely and others were during the audit. These issues all remain well within the scope of CSJ’s audit. Did CSJ not discern the fairly obvious inconsistencies in their account of editorial process, or did they opt not to push the issue further, and why?
4/10/2024 4:39 pm
I haven’t seen anywhere that CJR looked at Erdely’s and Woods’ statements to the media that are inconsistent, conflicting and false.
4/10/2024 4:57 pm
A few mostly but not completely unrelated points:
1) Will Dana’s Middlebury comments imply that they (Rolling Stone and its people) believe that what they believe in a macro sense is more important overall than the actual truth is in a micro sense, which is to say that even if they knew that the details of this particular story were a lie, as long as the story reflected their beliefs on a larger level, nothing else mattered… in other words, the means justified the ends.
So it’s safe to think that this kind of behavior is standard operating procedure at RS. Following from that, the legal benefits of keeping Dana, Woods, Erdely et al employed and non-hostile are purely additive — from RS’s point of view they did nothing wrong, their journalistic transgressions were.justified to achieve the larger goal, and they would be useful tools in perpetrating similar frauds in the future. That would neatly explain their not seeing the need to change their methodology, and it also neatly explains their view of Jackie in hindsight: The next time we are pulling a con, the only thing we need to change is to make sure that we don’t pick someone as the story’s centerpiece who can be exposed as a fake as easily as Jackie was.
2) Sabrina Rubin Erdely is either the world’s most self-absorbed but oblivious individual and/or supremely confident that her peers in the business wouldn’t give the game away on her (sorry, Richard!).
Her last tweet on (November 28) was about a WaPo article of the same date. That article, which appeared in the ‘Style’ section and was written by Paul Farhi, came several days after Richard’s first post on the story on this blog (November 24), and it even casually mentions her taking one journalistic shortcut.
So you have to ask yourself, what kind of individual would self-promote a fraud that is already under scrutiny? The only obvious answera are someone who is not totally with it or someone who thinks her peers in the media will all give her a sly wink and let her get away with it because they agree with the premise of it.
(As an aside, in that WaPo article, Erdely is quoted, as follows. “I was concerned, very late in the game, that no one would be willing to read this story,” she said in an interview. “I thought the reaction would be, ‘We know about this problem,’ and they’d turn the page.” How believable — or unbelievable — is that? It defies common sense that she would think that, after working so hard to make the story so provocatively inflamatory).
It seems safe to say that Farhi giving her a pass was exactly what SRE expected him and everyone else to do. His title is ‘Media Reporter,’ but ‘Stenographer’ might be more important, given how Farhi was asleep at the switch, willfully or otherwise, to the story’s to-good-to-be-true quality..
3) Everyone from the CSJ to people at supposedly objective mainstream media outlets like the Washington Post kept play the part of Sergeant Schultz: “I see nothing, I hear nothing, and I say nothing!”
Perhaps stuff like this explains why the fake news from the likes of Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert is so popular… yes, it’s just as biased and biased in the exact same way, but at least it’s presented in a way to make you laugh rather than cry.
4/10/2024 5:17 pm
To InterestedObserver:
You asked, “What kind of individual would self-promote a fraud that is already under scrutiny?”
That’s a question that only Erdely could answer.
I am sure the reason why she pulled this stunt (stunts?)is complicated. Perhaps Erdely is a victim of sexual assault herself and yet never dealt with it properly. Perhaps she has feelings of insecurity and inadequacy. Whatever her motives are, she should (like Jackie) seek counseling to try to understand the cause of her duplicitous and unethical behaviors.
4/10/2024 5:21 pm
To InterestedObserver:
I would like to suggest that you listen to Erdely’s interview on the Brian Lehrer show last November. A secure and confident person wouldn’t have flared up and gotten angry, as Erdely did, when an attorney called into the program to say that many cases of campus rape turn out to be false.
4/10/2024 5:25 pm
[…] Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer — who both did a lot to shine a searchlight on the fuckup — continue to make smart, great points. […]
4/10/2024 5:36 pm
Victoria —
I haven’t listened to it yet, although I will. Your point is well taken, and suggests that my alternative hypothesis is the correct one — that Erdely was pretty certain that none of her fellow travelers in the media would do anything to.jeopardize her little fairy tale.
As for your conjecture about her possibly being a victim of sexual assault herself, I’ve wondered how she could harbor such obvious hatred towards men, and that would certainly be a reasonable explanation.
4/10/2024 5:51 pm
@InterestedObserver 4:57 pm
Will Dana’s advice to aspiring journalists at Middlebury College: “Write what you believe.”
“A Rape on Campus” is an apt illustration of how this point of view can have disastrous effects.
Has Dana or RS learned anything? Not likely. Not at all likely.
4/10/2024 7:07 pm
Steve Coll says, like the u.s. pre 9-11 intelligence service, the system messed up. Gwen Ifill at pbs says: no, actual people did.
” By closing her mind, by undertaking a campaign and ignoring all of the norms of sourcing and fact checking, she stumbled into a pit from which she may never emerge. I certainly would look askance at her future investigations. Why? Because she made up her conclusion first and crossed the line into non-journalistic advocacy. She decided what the truth was and figured the rest of us would climb on board. For awhile, we did.”
I think both are right. Coll basically describes a newsroom of bad processs and bad judgment. Ifill describes how crossing the line from decent reporting into making stuff up, even if out of a belief system that pretty much everyone has (we all have our beliefs which aren’t necessarily true) is a clear one and people not systems do the crossing.
4/10/2024 9:06 pm
“Read the whole thing and you begin to question if the Obama administration, via Catherine Lhamon, Assistant Secretary in the Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights may not be using the feminist movement to create the whole “campus rape epidemic” as a political tool.”
That’s EXACTLY what was going on. This “campus rape epidemic” BS was being widely promote by AP and the rest of the Obammunist lapdog-media months before the RS article, without one whit of evidence or even a single example to support the claims of this non-existent crisis. The RS article was supposed to be the smoking-gun to prove this here-to-fore completely evidence-free propaganda or a non-existent “crisis”.
AND the “campus rape epidemic” crisis was going to be a cornerstone campaign issue for Hillary. Ever since the RS article has been debunked, the Obammunist lapdog-media has gone completely silent about the non-existent “campus rape epidemic” crisis. Poor Hillary will now have to come up with some new lies as campaign issues.
4/10/2024 10:53 pm
I keep hearing people refer to “Jackie”, Securro, Renda, Sulkowicz as “victims” or “alleged victims”.
But that’s wrong!
They are strong!
And they learned to get along.
They didn’t crumble.
They didn’t lay down and die.
They know how to stay alive.
They will survive!
4/10/2024 11:40 pm
@Victoria
“I am sure the reason why she pulled this stunt (stunts?)is complicated. Perhaps Erdely is a victim of sexual assault herself and yet never dealt with it properly. Perhaps she has feelings of insecurity and inadequacy. Whatever her motives are, she should (like Jackie) seek counseling to try to understand the cause of her duplicitous and unethical behaviors.”
I don’t think this is the case. Sabrina has always struck me as a just another cynical careerist, rather than a Jezebel type true believer. There are some extreme feminists who have clearly undergone some sort of emotional trauma in their past, but my guess is that Sabrina is just another ambitious liberal journalist who though she could win some easy praise and acclaim by jumping on the campus rape bandwagon and who ended up getting bitten.
Even in her interviews where she repeats all that tripe about rape culture it sounds to me like she is just going through the motions.
4/11/2024 1:14 am
I also reject the allegation Jackie is a deeply troubled or mentally ill woman. I think it’s more likely she’s a spoiled rich girl who has few scruples and wanted a guy to like her so she told lies and played games. Sometimes the reason is the simplest, not the most complicated. No therapist needed, just discipline.
4/11/2024 5:45 am
The whole government involvement in campus sexual assault predates Obama — and I say that as one of his harshest critics — although his view of things, and his ability to change the system for the worst certainly can’t be denied. Congress through successive administrations has abrogated their duty to handle this properly because they are cowards — they find it easier to farm it out to the schools than to stand up to the social justice warriors who want the issue placed under the control of like-minded people.
School administrations shouldn’t have the ability to adjudicate anything to do with the issue — it should be a criminal proceeding — and even more than that, they should be made to respect due process in everything they do, which currently isn’t the case.
The whole notion that upper-education students should be treated differently and not by the regular justice system is a crock.
4/11/2024 6:04 am
Comrade Bala: Have you watched Erdely online in her interviews? She is no doubt, self-serving and overdoes it in the self- promotion, but her attacks on men seem rooted in something. In her interview with Rolling Stone editor Anthony deCurtis in 2012 which you can see online- she tells the audience that her first story was about a Penn professor who had “enslaved” a female student in an s&m relationship. Bizarrely, she tells the audience that she believed the professor was guilty of the allegations because when they sat down for the interview at a restaurant she says he “looked down my shirt.”
How does she make the leap that because he looked down her shirt he had enslaved a student in an s and m affair? Plenty of men look down women’s shirts but that doesn’t mean they’re guilty of anything worse!
In my opinion, she seems to have some weird anti- man agenda — as well as being an over the top self-promoter.
4/11/2024 6:05 am
Comrade Bala: Have you watched Erdely online in her interviews? She is no doubt, self-serving and overdoes it in the self- promotion, but her attacks on men seem rooted in something. In her interview with Rolling Stone editor Anthony deCurtis in 2012 which you can see online- she tells the audience that her first story was about a Penn professor who had “enslaved” a female student in an s&m relationship. Bizarrely, she tells the audience that she believed the professor was guilty of the allegations because when they sat down for the interview at a restaurant she says he “looked down my shirt.”
How does she make the leap that because he looked down her shirt he had enslaved a student in an s and m affair? Plenty of men look down women’s shirts but that doesn’t mean they’re guilty of anything worse!
In my opinion, she seems to have some weird anti- man agenda — as well as being an over the top self-promoter.
4/11/2024 8:38 am
SRE has regressed from boasting of possessing a formidable “BS Detector” (lest we forget) to now claiming that she had no idea that she was being duped by an unreliable collegiate source. Oops, my fingers are becoming frozen above the keyboard….
4/11/2024 9:08 am
Why stray so far from Erderly and Jackie…that is what magnified this whole fiasco to begin with. Two people used each other and threw friends, frat houses and universities under the bus all to make a point that…is just that, made up.
Still contend that lousy core is what keeps on erupting. One girl’s made up story to get a guy who wasn’t interested and one reporter’s eagerness to find the perfect “victim” to prove whatever it was. All the while making everyone and everything a cartoon.
As an alum reading it was like reading a horror story. I had no love but no hate either for the frats - never bothered me . But the way it was described - the powerfuk vs the powerless, where not even an administration of of powerful women could do right by one person.
The details were both too good and too lousy. A vivid assault scene that took place on or just off a caricature of school grounds.
With tons of blonds everywhere. Please . Fly by journalism . Now,there are other stories at uva worth looking at. The Yeardly Love case, which was brutal and marked the sad end of president casteen’s era, the near dismissal of pres sullivan by an over eager board and the summer protests to reinstate her plus the pressure on public campuses tobe private, hannah graham who actually deserved an investigative story to understand her last night off campus and how it was mapped back to other murders. Seems interesting enough, grieving moms , a former football star turned actual assault prone with verifiable incidents at two universities in virginia.
Three stories right there. Instead, making up facts and sticking them on an agenda.
Gwen Ifill was more right than anyone realizes. This isnt a small blight on an otherwise sterling resume…it is a conviction of a foolish and wrong headed way of reporting that dumps facts in favor of a convenient story.
4/11/2024 9:11 am
And to give credit where it is due, most of my points were from other comments on this blog. My only original one ha was a quote from pbs gwen ifill that basically says yeah erderly , id of fired her!
4/11/2024 9:21 am
Erderly could have apologized and jackie too. Now more of this.
NEWS
Next steps for Phi Psi
Fraternity could face numerous legal obstalces
by Alexandra Hickey | Apr 10 2015 | 17 hours ago
John Pappas | The Cavalier Daily
Phi Kappa Psi is seeking legal action against Rolling Stone magazine, but as of now not against Sabrina Erdely.
The University Phi Kappa Psi chapter announced Monday its intentions to pursue legal action against Rolling Stone Magazine shortly after the Columbia Journalism School released its review of the magazine Sunday.
The review detailed the journalistic failures of writer Sabrina Erdely and the Rolling Stone editing chain in the Nov. 19 publication of an article detailing a brutal gang rape of a University student by a member of Phi Kappa Psi. In the wake of the article and the impact it had on the chapter, Phi Kappa Psi plans to file a lawsuit against the magazine for defamation.
As a defamation case, the lawsuit will seek reparations for the injuries Phi Kappa Psi brothers experienced as a direct result of false statements made against them in the article. While specific details of the lawsuit have yet to be released, legal experts are speculating what it may entail.
One of the initial clarifications to be made is whether the court will rule the fraternity as a public or private figure. University Law Prof. G. Edward White said the latter would prove more advantageous to the fraternity during legal proceedings.
“Given the difficulty of showing out-of-pocket losses in defamation cases, it will be critical in this case whether the fraternity is considered a public figure or a private citizen defamed on a matter of public concern,” White said. “Private citizen plaintiffs defamed on matters of public concern can recover if they can show falsity, loss of reputation and a negligent attitude toward whether the statement was false or not — for example, failing to make a ‘good faith check’ on the accuracy of the allegedly defamatory statements.”
As a private figure, Phi Kappa Psi would need only prove negligence in checking for accuracy on the part of Rolling Stone, while if considered a public figure, the chapter would need to prove “actual malice” on the part of the magazine.
Questions have also been raised as to whether the fraternity brothers should sue collectively as a fraternal organization or as individuals. UCLA Law Prof. Eugene Volokh said he was not in favor of the idea of the brothers suing individually, especially given that courts generally draw the line well below 80 individuals for organizational cases.
“The size of the organization does matter, and it cuts against the organization, but what also matters is the nature of the accusation and how it bears against each member,” Volokh said.
Given the article’s implication that rape was part of a ritualized initiation all brothers had to go through and the lack of evidence linking the brothers in the article to actual brothers in Phi Kappa Psi, Volokh said the lawsuit would be better presented on behalf of the fraternity as a collective since the allegations of the article reflected on all brothers equally.
Though Phi Kappa Psi publicly stated intentions to sue the magazine, it is uncertain whether writer Sabrina Erdely will also face legal action. Volokh said both the magazine and Erdely are potentially culpable and that restricting the lawsuit to one party may pose problems.
“Since both of them seem culpable in different ways, I think sueing just one would invite the defendant to say, ‘This is the other defendant’s fault’ and would make the jury wonder why the other entity or person wasn’t sued,” Volokh said. “[This could] incline the jury maybe to saying, ‘Well, this defendant is only responsible for part of the damages, maybe half.”
Volokh said whether the lawsuit will go to trial by jury is another question entirely. He said he had some reservations as to what the best course of action for Phi Kappa Psi would be, mentioning that plaintiffs often get a better deal through settlement due to the expenses incurred during trial. He said he was doubtful the fraternity would refuse to settle.
White said he thought settlement would be a less sensible option for Phi Kappa Psi and hopes the fraternity will “aggressively pursue” the case to trial, as settlement would provide Rolling Stone the opportunity to avoid having its journalistic practices reexamined in a public forum.
“[The fraternity] is seeking primarily to vindicate its reputation as opposed to recovering a substantial damage settlement,” White said. “Any settlement, in my view, should include a very conspicuous public statement by Rolling Stone that none of the practices alleged to have been part of Phi Psi’s hazing protocols occurred, and that no members of the fraternity were involved in any assault on ‘Jackie.’”
Robert Turner, associate director of the National Security Law Center of the Law School, said Rolling Stone would have interest in stopping the lawsuit at settlement, explaining the magazine’s insurance company would face risks in a trial setting.
Turner said if the lawsuit does find its way to a courtroom, Phi Kappa Psi will need to provide evidence of the article’s harm to the chapter’s reputation, such as a decline in contributions or a loss of membership — and thus decreased revenue from membership fees. While he said no guarantee of legal success can be made for Phi Psi, the conduct of Rolling Stone both in producing and responding to the article will provide a challenge to the magazine’s lawyers.
“Now that [Rolling Stone’s lawyers] have asked top experts to investigate every aspect of the matter and the report is public, and they still have done nothing to hold anyone accountable for all the wrongful things that have been done, I find it difficult to fathom a legal theory by which Phi Psi would lose unless there is some procedural hurdle,” Turner said.
While the lawsuit is on behalf of the fraternity, it ultimately stands for something far greater for the University community, he said.
“Since the University itself cannot sue, in going forward [Phi Kappa Psi] would be vindicating the reputation of our entire community,” Turner said. “I think Phi [Kappa] Psi is in a position to champion not only its own reputation, but that of the University and its living graduates around the world. And I will be greatly surprised if they lack the courage to do what they believe is right.-cavalier daily
4/11/2024 10:28 am
Nice of you to post the Cavalier Daily article in full for us here, JMil, but it violates copyright. Could be they are non-profit and won’t send a bill, but it should be avoided on principle.
4/11/2024 10:29 am
JMil,
Look up a picture of Hannah Graham’s murderer. Rape culture theory targets so-called privileged, college-educated men, not least fraternities, that have a reputation (deserved or not) for housing sons of the affluent and powerful. Last year, an organised web of mostly South Asian men grooming and raping underprivileged mostly white girls in England for over a decade was exposed. What makes it even more horrifying is that local social workers, police, and others who raised concerns were silenced and threatened by officials, including women, for being racist and bigoted. Now that, that is a rape culture.
FYI British academe is just as fixated on campus rape culture as in the US. The feminist response to Rotherdam in British universities and the media: Tepid. Shirking away from responsibility. In the US, it was practically radio silence. They just looked away. All the while last year, the panic over campus rape culture - relying on distorted statistics, arbitrarily expanded definitions, and kangaroo court protocol - reached dizzying heights in academe and the media.
This juxtaposition of responses is sickening, and raises even more questions about belief in a campus rape epidemic and rape culture. Also realize that no one involved with the RS story or who later praised it seemed particularly concerned about the alleged rapists - no, make that ritualized gang-rapists - being caught and thrown in jail, even though Erdely and co. claimed they KNEW how to identify them. Rape culture activism is not about changing society for the better by preventing rape and protecting rape survivors. There is something deceptive and malicious going on.
4/11/2024 12:48 pm
[…] One of the first journalists to raise serious questions about Rolling Stone‘s rape hoax story, Richard Bradley makes this point: […]
4/11/2024 1:14 pm
My bad sorry for posting! Will review guidelines, feel free to direct inquiries my way. Not one not to square up with responsibility:)
4/11/2024 1:34 pm
The best first part of the fraternity lawsuit would be the depositions, starting with Jackie.
4/11/2024 2:42 pm
I-Roller,
You’re mistaken about facts, about what I’m saying, and about how trials work. Zimmerman wasn’t found guilty. That’s what trials do. Juries don’t proclaim anyone innocent. They decide that they can’t call someone guilty of the particular crime charged, based on the evidence and approach of the prosecutors, beyond the shadow of a doubt.
Here are the facts. Zimmerman certainly pursued Martin while carrying a weapon. He certainly got out of his vehicle while carrying that weapon. Martin was certainly within the common property of the homeowners’ association of which his father was a member, where Martin was living at that time.
Martin not only could be forgiven for fearing for his life, his life was actually taken.
So I don’t dispute that Martin attacked Zimmerman. What I dispute is that that attack constituted a provocation that allowed Zimmerman to take action.
Quite the opposite. Under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, Martin had the right to attack Zimmerman to defend himself in a setting where he rightly feared for his life.
What the prosecution needed to do was to prosecute for stalking first. It would have been a slam dunk conviction - a man with a gun, following an innocent teenager on the property of his father, being told by police not to do so, not to engage, but nonetheless getting out of his vehicle, armed …
With that conviction under their belt, a follow-up trial would’ve been much simpler. There need be no argument about whether Martin attacked Zimmerman at that point. You can cede the point, rather than making the whole trial depend on bluffing that Martin did not attack.
Zimmerman at any rate is bound to put himself in prison at some point. He’s a raving homicidal lunatic who has repeatedly been violent towards women in his life.
4/11/2024 3:59 pm
RE Zimmerman (quoting previous comment by Anonymous):
“What the prosecution needed to do was to prosecute for stalking first. It would have been a slam dunk conviction–a man with a gun, following an innocent teenager on the property of his father, being told by police not to do so, not to engage, but nonetheless getting out of his vehicle, armed.”
However a person may feel about the Zimmerman/Martin case, this is an example of the same pseudo-journalism as occurred in Rolling Stone.
It was demonstrated early on that Zimmerman had long since gotten out of his vehicle when the police dispatcher told him it wasn’t necessary for him to follow Martin.
He wasn’t told to stay in his car. The chronology there is just flatly wrong. There’s no serious dispute about that basic fact. At trial,. the prosecution never claimed he’d been told to stay in his car.
But so what? The claim that he’d been told to stay in his car made the preferred story better. Especially on MSNBC, the usual suspects just kept repeating this bogus fact, along with quite a few others.
Millions of people still believe that Zimmerman disobeyed an order or request to stay in his car. This false belief continues to fuel the “Erdelized” version of that night’s events, however a person may ultimately judge the case.
4/11/2024 4:19 pm
Washington Post’s Kathleen Parker: “Heads should be rolling” at Rolling Stone for Erderly’s article. Encourage anyone to read Parker’s commentary and the commentry from Gwen Ifill and of course the Jon Stewart piece. That’s THREE notable folks to say: “someone’s gotta go”.
Parker called a spade a spade after Gwen Ifill did and both said the story was lousy, Erderly didn’t do her job and no one else did at Rolling Stone either. They both echo-ed Richard Bradley but added a little extra: the idea that neither would have trespassed from reporting and writing, to all-out advocacy masquerading as reporting. No one did their job…
Parker ends in wishing the fraternity the best of luck in their lawsuit. How about that. That’s a big wow - Parker’s saying in effect the frat guys got slammed for something they didn’t do and it’s only fair they get a real apology on top of the retraction, and the apology coming from Erderly and Rolling Stone, if not the fabulist.
Still waiting for Jackie’s op-ed. The truth sets you free and heartfelt apology has a lot to say for it. That one is unlikely but you never know, people can surprise.
Also appreciated Erik Wemple’s Washington Post piece on Judith Miller’s book and mea culpa - Wemple comes down hard (again!). Wemple strikes me as a guy that goes for the jugular but it’s hard to disagree with him, just that he’s extremely harsh and seems to delight in taking down reporters that make stuff up. Maybe he should be, but he still seems to me to get way too much out of the experience and I think it can backfire. I like Richard Bradley’s humility a lot better.
Will be interesting to follow what happens next with the Judith Miller story. Not all that different in that she was willingly led into a fiasco.
Will probably be interested in that I saw a lecture from a pretty high profile professor that served in one of the administrations that basically said the same thing at another point in time, it wasn’t their fault for pushing de-baatification. They had served in the CPA under Paul Bremer and had more or less put together the slide decks etc, from what George Parker wrote. I guess they have a reason to put as much distance between themselves and the consequences they usher in, as possible. Whether to sleep well at night or whatever.
Always troubling. I just don’t get why they don’t say “I’M SORRY!” Would mean a lot.
4/11/2024 7:48 pm
Under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, Martin had the right to attack Zimmerman to defend himself in a setting where he rightly feared for his life.
This is insane.
4/11/2024 10:03 pm
Nobody has the right, even under Florida’s foolish law, to assault a stranger for looking at him funny or asking him what he’s up to.
As for Martin rightly fearing for his life, I doubt he’d have attacked the much shorter man if he’d known that Zimmerman had a gun. But none of us really knows.
As for who had the right to the sidewalk, remember that Zimmerman also lived in the apartment complex.
4/11/2024 10:39 pm
This is such a weird meme, this idea that since Zimmerman was out of his SUV when the dispatcher told him he shouldn’t follow Martin, the dispatcher’s words were meaningless.
Martin was clearly being stalked. He was doing nothing wrong, walking on the property where he lived, and some lunatic with a gun was following him for quite a while, even after being told not to by a police dispatcher.
And this idea that you’re allowed to stalk men who are taller than you. Also batshit.
Anyway, as I said, Zimmerman will get himself imprisoned soon. His true colors have come out over and over. Violent, misogynist, racist scum meet their fates.
4/12/2023 2:07 am
Is anyone following some discussions that Liz Seccuro’s story is too similar with the RS account of Jackie? Check out Liz Seccuro’s interview on MSNBC Today. Ms. Seccuro actually states her concerns that her story was co-opted in Jackie’s story. Is this still a case of a reporter with an honest intention who fell victim to confirmation bias? When did SRE lose her conscience?
4/12/2023 5:19 am
Ryan: Please point to me where there is a law on the books that says “you’re allowed to stalk men who are taller than you.” There’s no law anywhere that says you can’t follow anyone. When I was a journalist, we routinely tailed people all the time. Private investigators tail people for a living. They follow people of all sizes and shapes. Mr. Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin. Martin had been kicked out of school for drugs. He had also been kicked out of school for being caught with a bag full of burglary tools and stolen watches. Zimmerman said he saw him Martin looking in windows.
Additionally, you left out the part that Mr. Zimmerman said”Ok” when the dispatcher said to go back to his car. The dispatcher never said “Stay in your car” because he was already out of the car when he called. He was headed back there when he was jumped from behind. There is NO excuse for him being jumped. Two people whose lives intersected in a terrible way, each having their own motives.
But this thread is about Sabrina Rubin Erdely. I am interested in Troy’s comment about Liz Seccuro. Perhaps Jackie- and Erdely -did co-opt Securro’s story.
4/12/2023 9:28 am
somerby: start writing your blogs like you write your comments, they’ll go over better
4/12/2023 9:59 am
HL: On balance, I think you’re wrong. In my experience, there is no way to tell tribal adherents that they shouldn’t invent bogus facts in service to preferred narratives.
You can’t tell mainstream journalists not to do it. You can’t tell members of partisan political tribes.
Also, you can’t make mainstream journalists tell the truth about others within their profession.
In 18 years, I’ve tried every approach-pleasant jesting, dispassionate presentation of detailed facts, name-calling. In my experience, no approach to these practices can or will work in any way at all. It simply can’t be done.
We the people love “our stories.” We tend to be extremely reluctant to give our stories up.
Mainstream journalists overwhelmingly tend to keep typing in whatever direction the current winds may be blowing. In my experience, there is no approach to this gigantic preference that will ever actually work.
(For what it’s worth, the CJS report strikes me as an example of one part of this phenomenon. Given what was already known about Rolling Stone’s weird journalistic failure, they couldn’t have written a softer report.)
4/12/2023 10:15 am
Troy, yeah I think so. I think either Jackie read Seccuro’s take and added details or Erderly looked for a model of how to write this, knowing she would already quote Seccuro - re-read Seccuro’s book, then put it together so that there was a link between the two.
Coll’s review of the notes would have, if he were looking for it, uncovered something about Seccuro and Seccuro’s book. Some sort of notation. For now my take is Seccuro’s first doubts where she distanced herself from Jackie and “speculated” out loud that Jackie cut, paste and re-edited from her own book - stole her story. I had mentioned that to me Seccuro’s motives behind distancing didn’t matter - whether to save her reputation or because she truly believed it. There was the WAPO story from unsung reporter T Rees Shapiro about how Seccuro took a pen and a highlighter and marked up the magazine’s print version with questions commens and “not possible” statements.
Apparently the fraternity did this also. I believe the fraternity because those guys are in school. Maybe even used their kindles Sorry for the pot shot - I dont have the kindle or ipad,
My whole thing was (a) if this is a cover up how awful! Justice must be served! but also (b) innocent until proven guilty. I was taken by the Rolling Stone story but I also felt the wave of reactions to ban fraternities etc was an overwhelming response and that you should have the chance to prove innocence.
Like I said thankfully some folks took the time to weigh the piece, evaluate the merits and say YEAH THIS IS AN INJUSTICE - but NOT FOR THE REASONS YOU THINK! A real gift and a credit to those who did this. Big thanks to Richard.
4/12/2023 10:36 am
if you have watched the video of SRE on the Melissa Harris-Perry Show (http://on.msnbc.com/1yuVzPk #nerdland) What is interesting to me is the date that this show aired: 11/29/14. If we are to believe SRE’s timeline, that means she appeared on the show two days after her “alarm bells” went off regarding Jackie’s account (Which the CJS report says was the day before Thanksgiving.) So my question is why did SRE go on this show. If she really had doubts, if her “fingers stopped” when Jackie couldn’t spell the lifeguard’s last name, then why three days later was she going on national television and talking with folks who had accepted her story as gospel truth. Same is true with the Paul Fahri piece on SRE in the Washington Post on November 28th. Something seems off about this timeline. If she had doubts on November 26th, why was she still flogging the story during the next two days? Why was she allowing other journalists to report on a story that now was causing her own fingers to stop typing? Either SRE has constructed a false timelines for legal purposes, or she has little regard for her fellow journalist or the truth. NOTE: Since SRE is so good at psychoanalyzing people she doesn’t know, then I think it is okay to do the same to her. She looks scared shitless during the Melissa Harris Perry show.
4/12/2023 11:12 am
thanks for the feedback bro, keep fighting the good fight
4/12/2023 11:13 am
btw your comment section is hilarious, thank you for not editing it
4/12/2023 11:47 am
Does anyone know if Erdeley and Glass shared the same professor back when they were classmates?
4/12/2023 1:17 pm
To JMil - thanks for pointing out the WaPo story on Liz Seccuro by T. Rees Shapiro. I had missed that one.
How large of a mountain of evidence is necessary before its clear that the RS staff deliberately mislead readers on more than one part of the story? How many reputations were maligned in the story?
Richard, thank-you again for being the voice of experience and reason throughout this debacle. Also leaving the comments section open has given so many others a chance to share. Its clear that the story fundamentally offended a wide range of folks and we need a chance to weigh in. I hope the RS staff is following your blog.
4/12/2023 1:49 pm
[…] In the End, It’s All About Rape Culture—or the Lack Thereof I’ve taken a couple of days before responding to Columbia Journalism School’s report on the Rolling Stone/Sabrina Rubin Erdely/Jackie fiasco. There’s always pressure to provide near-instantaneous reactions to news events, but the report is long and substantive. I wanted to take some time with it. […]
4/12/2023 4:54 pm
Apropos Somerby’s remarks, I’m reminded of a quote from Stephen Pinker:
“Sophisticated people sneer at feel-good comedies and saccharine romances in which all loose ends are tied and everyone lives happily ever after. Yet when it comes to the science of human beings, this same audience says: Give us schmaltz.”
Here we may replace “the science of human beings” with “journalism”.
4/12/2023 7:23 pm
Great 60 Minutes piece today on Mike Pressler, who lost his job at Duke as the Lacrosse coach because he defended his players from the infamous false rape charge against them.
Courage, loyalty, and commitment to the Truth in one person.
4/13/2015 1:03 am
I saw the preview to the 60 Minutes piece but didn’t see the segment.
Michael Smerconish, who interviewed Sabrina Erdely, has a piece on her in the Philly Inquirer.
“Just after the now-infamous Rolling Stone /University of Virginia rape story was published, but before it imploded, I interviewed the author for SiriusXM radio. Sabrina Rubin Erdely would soon stop promoting the piece after the Washington Post and other media outlets raised questions about its accuracy.”
4/13/2015 1:49 am
http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/20150412_The_Pulse__Red_flags_on_piece_were_there.html
4/13/2015 7:41 am
In Smericonish’s piece in the Philadelphia Inquirer yesterday, he said that Erdely told him in their radio interview: “I put her story through the wringer. I talked to all of her friends, all the people that she confided in along the way.”
Hmm… And yet to Slate she said she talked to practically all of her friends but not all.
Does the CJR know that Erdely told these lies in interviews?
4/13/2015 8:27 am
^^ Do they care?
I simply cannot wrap my brain around RS’s nonchalance about what they’ve done.
4/13/2015 9:56 am
“Does the CJR know that Erdely told these lies in interviews? Do they care?”
“Do they care” seems like a very good question. The Columbia team goes a million miles out of its way to vouch for Erdely’s good intentions right at the start of their report. As they proceed, they fail to ask the most obvious questions about her various failures to fact-check; about the apparent absurdity of certain claims in the original Rolling Stone report (the broken bottle; the shattered table); about the puzzling, apparently inaccurate statements Erdely and other Rolling Stone personnel made to some interviewers.
One example of the questions not asked:
What did Jackie say when Erdely asked her why her mother wasn’t responding to emails? Did Erdely even bother asking Jackie about the lack of response?
There’s no sign that the Columbia team subjected Erdely to the indignity of these fairly obvious questions. This pattern extends all through the report.
The Columbia team is very soft on the relentless failure to fact-check. Given what was already widely known, it seems to me that they wrote the softest possible report.
4/13/2015 10:17 am
“I put her story through the wringer. I talked to all of her friends, all the people that she confided in along the way.”
One thing that really struck me when I read the RS story was that the only friends that were directly quoted and named were women from the rape support/activist community Jackie befriended LONG AFTER she was allegedly assaulted.
4/13/2015 11:25 am
Bob Somerby:
I agree. This was the softest report possible. Even a first year journalism student would know better than to do what she had done.
4/13/2015 12:03 pm
Read George Packer’s take in NEWYORKER.COM on Rolling Stone and the Coll report, which faults the magazine’s “tendencies” and inability to “distrust” some of its competing motivations - such as the drive to publish a “good story” rather than an accurate one, and how that drive removed all sorts of attributions that would have gone to Jackie. I’ve moved closer to Gwen Ifill and Kathleen Parker’s take on the whole “fiasco” - first, Erderly messed up. Second, Rolling Stone supported that mess up. And third: with or without the motives, it’s a colossal mess up that didn’t merit one column in any magazine of note.
The New Yorker take from Packer is more sympathetic (published April 7, 2024) to Erderly, maybe because she once wrote for them (small stuff) or maybe because he recognizes how easy it is to be over-taken by narrative journalism and narrative writing, given it’s convenient - convenient to sweep something under a rug because it “fits” a thesis (not all that unlike any field really - convenient to throw a colleague under a bus, facts under a carpet or in the trashcan, etc - qualify nothing and go for the win!).
But then I’m reminded by Kathleen Parker and Gwen Ifill and I say: yeah, this is like WMD. It’s just like Judith Miller’s quest to scoop or out-scoop. It’s about someone making a point in the most irresponsible way possible.
Got to say, I like what Kathleen Parker and Gwen Ifill said a lot more than Coll, Packer or anyone else save Bradley. If a system supports your mistakes…they remain your mistakes.
4/13/2015 3:22 pm
btw, with Jenny Wilkinson’s recent op-ed in NYTIMES - my take: Jenny’s story is real and the Rolling Stone is not. They really are apples and oranges.
4/13/2015 3:22 pm
I also recall that in the Slate interview Erdely said she didn’t talk the men at the fraternity because their yearbook wasn’t up to date. Hogwash. She lied.
4/13/2015 9:13 pm
The scope of the CJR was too narrow as explained by Richard. But the CJR proved that SRE and RS editors were entirely accountable for all the fiasco. The inclusion of facts such the RS refusal to disclose the legal review will not be missed in the fraternity court case. The deliberate misrepresentation of Dean Groves demonstrates dishonesty on the part of SRE. The CJR should make it very difficult for SRE to be taken seriously as as a reporter.
4/13/2015 9:13 pm
The scope of the CJR was too narrow as explained by Richard. But the CJR proved that SRE and RS editors were entirely accountable for all the fiasco. The inclusion of facts such the RS refusal to disclose the legal review will not be missed in the fraternity court case. The deliberate misrepresentation of Dean Groves demonstrates dishonesty on the part of SRE. The CJR should make it very difficult for SRE to be taken seriously as as a reporter.
4/13/2015 11:54 pm
The NYT and RS articles are not apples and oranges, because a story is not just about its fact-checked content, but also its subtext and how it is intended to be received by readers. Media outlets like NYT are responding to the RS aftermath by working on making Jackie seem like an aberration, by continuing to reinforce a belief in rampant campus rape in the face of an indifferent administration, and discussing only how the RS article damaged rape victims’ safety and search for justice, and not extending that to the rights of the accused.
The op-ed is in support of expanding university practice of advocating belief for the accuser over due process rights of the accused. It is in support of universities adjudicating rape cases separately and under no obligation of accountability from established legal courts, and under a lower burden of proof. This is all met with plenty of agreement in many of the comments. Comments, including one selected as an NYT pick, that openly call for the burden of proof to be on the accused rather than the accuser, and support a preponderance of evidence standard.
While Wilkinson has the right to tell her story, the response to it is ever more troubling. As with Jackie and various other publicized but not legally convicted accounts of rape, many readers are responding with the same ‘Believe survivors’ line of thinking, and a deep disregard for the rights of the accused.
The RS story could have been used by the media as a way to mute this unreasoned reaction, but editorial decisions like this one seem geared for reinforcing it. Wilkinson’s story is relevant to ongoing discussions about UVA and RS, but the choice of article is questionable.
4/14/2015 7:13 am
I am for due process only, period. I think a broad brush frats are bad! They are evil! Scapegoating without reference to facts is against any concept for fairness and any reasonable standard…and in the service of dishonesty.
Still waiting for Jackie to pen an op-ed that says I’m sorry. She said as much in the washington post story by t rees shapiro in november, that she never meant for any of this to happen and wished she went to some other school as she never saw herself at uva anyways. As if to wish it all went away. Then the phone call home to the dad who said it wasnt phi psi it was elsewhere etc. Jackie has done a lot to protect herself from herself…hiding behind reporters, on grounds groups, now lawyers. She has begun a debate without being part of it, probably her advocacy goal. And she hasnt ever verified anything on the record beyond that he never meant anything to happen.
Well it happenned anyway.
4/14/2015 9:20 am
“Due process” means only the process that is due. There is significant authority suggesting that “preponderance of the evidence” is an appropriate “due” standard to kick someone out of school.
As every single university in the world and almost all activists will tell you, it is far better for someone to be tried in court and sent to jail. But if a prosecutor won’t act or can’t act, whatever the reason, a school still has a responsibility to respond to violent crimes by its students.
All this stuff about schools usurping the criminal-justice system is just nonsense and most of you guys are full of crap.
“Media outlets like NYT are responding to the RS aftermath by working on making Jackie seem like an aberration.”
If you know any human beings, female or otherwise, you know that a liar like Jackie is an aberration. Several of the commenters above are merely sexist assholes in implying otherwise.
“The op-ed is in support of expanding university practice [sic] of advocating belief for the accuser over due process rights of the accused.”
Belief for the accuser is not a right. But the accuser has the right to be heard, just as the accused does. And then yes, the school must choose between them.
There is no due-process “right” to attend a private school. There is due process required at state schools in the sense that the process must be fair; a student at a public school does indeed have the right to be treated fairly. That is all. No other standard of proof is “due” under current law.
“It [the op-ed] is in support of universities adjudicating rape cases separately and under no obligation of accountability from established legal courts, and under a lower burden of proof.”
That is what they do now and it is correct. The accountability comes only if there is a civil lawsuit afterward, which of course is totally possible and has happened in several cases.
I do not know how low the standard of proof within the university peer-dispute process should be — there is a case to be made for “clear and convincing,” although my own preference would be in the 51% to 70% range — but OBVIOUSLY it is defensible for it to be lower than the standard of proof for sending someone to prison for fifteen to life.
Somebody called me out earlier on the thread as if I had some inclination to defend SRE or what she did. I have never done so and never had such an inclination.
SE
4/14/2015 10:16 am
SE: Better late than early. Even better would have been not at all, as you haven’t learned a single damn thing since last November. In the immortal words of Jacques Chirac: you “missed a great opportunity to be quiet”.
4/14/2015 10:28 am
The great irony is that lowering the burden of proof in university hearings will have absolutely no impact on the safety of women.
It will only meet the narrow objective of personal retributive justice for a particular sub-set of relatively affluent, predominantly white women who feel they have been sexually assaulted.
4/14/2015 10:31 am
There is nothing to be learned about reality from the fact that Jackie exists. And all the “lessons learned” about journalism are, as Richard says, entirely basic. I am much more concerned about the Judith Millers, who get people killed, than the SREs, although of course neither belongs in journalism.
4/14/2015 10:47 am
“There is significant authority suggesting that “preponderance of the evidence” is an appropriate “due” standard to kick someone out of school.”
Yes, and that the significant authority is precisely who we are criticizing.
“But if a prosecutor won’t act or can’t act, whatever the reason, a school still has a responsibility to respond to violent crimes by its students.”
You mean if a legal court acquits a student of a violent, heinous crime, but a university retains the “responsibility” to try them under a lower burden of proof? Since when does any institution apart the criminal justice system have a “responsibility” to carry out its own set of rules for serious crimes? Who gave them that right? Why not try murder as well? And how are rape victims even protected by a student’s expulsion? The only responsiblity of universities is to refer accusations of serious crimes to the police, and respond according to what the legal proceedings are.
“If you know any human beings, female or otherwise, you know that a liar like Jackie is an aberration. Several of the commenters above are merely sexist assholes in implying otherwise.”
Hopefully and likely the extent of Jackie’s pathological lies are an aberration, but it’s fairly obvious to anyone who “knows human beings” that they lie all the time, and manipulate people and situations to their advantage all the time. ALL the time. Not least about sex. Many publicized accounts of these campus rapes have been revealed to have serious credibility issues, to say nothing of the ones that haven’t been discussed widely in the media. There are too many alleged rapes at universities for it to reflect reality. And the definition of rape and sexual assault have been expanded so much by universities that innocuous sexual behavior can get a student defined as a rapist. So no, Jackie is hardly an aberration.
“Belief for the accuser is not a right. But the accuser has the right to be heard, just as the accused does. And then yes, the school must choose between them.”
Er no, the justice system is supposed to “choose between” no one, but presume innocence, seek out strong evidence, and convict or acquit on the basis of that. Presumption of innocence, hello?! The shining light of the American and British criminal justice system.
“The accountability comes only if there is a civil lawsuit afterward, which of course is totally possible and has happened in several cases.”
No, accountability must be ensured throughout the process, or in a judicial context it is de facto unjust and corrupt. I feel like that is so obvious it doesn’t need to be said, but apparently not.
“OBVIOUSLY it is defensible for it to be lower than the standard of proof for sending someone to prison for fifteen to life.”
It’s not OBVIOUS or defensible at all. Rape is one of society’s most serious crimes. As such, not only should punishment for it be befitting that level of seriousness, but so too the road to conviction. Anything else is a frightening perversion of justice. Is this the hellish way universities are justifying handling rape cases separately from the law and the police? That expulsion from school is not as severe as prison, so a lower burden of proof is acceptable? (Again, how does that even help rape survivors?) As if being convicted and expelled as a rapist is a moral, social, and psychological equivalent to an academic discretion like cheating, with the same life experiences and opportunities henceforth. That betrays not just a callousness, but a lack of humanity towards those accused of rape, and a contempt for the basic principles of liberal justice. You may not be defending SRE, but by defending and justifying the egregious proceedings over rape by universities, you believe in and defend her agenda.
4/14/2015 11:10 am
For our newcomers: SE is an idiot troll who is best ignored. That is all.
4/14/2015 11:12 am
“You mean if a legal court acquits a student of a violent, heinous crime, but a university retains the “responsibility” to try them under a lower burden of proof? ”
Yep. “Acquittal” simply means “not ‘guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.’ ”
Ever hear of O.J.? Acquitted in the criminal system, found liable in the civil one.
“Presumption of innocence, hello?! The shining light of the American and British criminal justice system.”
Yep. There are other systems.
“That expulsion from school is not as severe as prison, so a lower burden of proof is acceptable?”
Yep.
The reason I mentioned the “significant authority” is that, although of course you can criticize it, many of the parties who believe a lower standard of proof is appropriate are those who ACTUALLY KNOW SOMETHING about what they are talking about when it comes to the identity of a university. They are speaking not on behalf of rape survivors, but on behalf of school communities that are simply NOT required to outsource their disciplinary decisions (as to cheating, vandalism, appropriate protest behavior, or anything else) to the criminal-justice system. You can say it as many times as you want, but criminal justice is not the same as and not dominant over campus discipline.
Again — lest I be misunderstood — by a thousand miles the optimal approach is for law enforcement to investigate and prosecute these allegations.
4/14/2015 11:15 am
Mary:
In the “Mattress Girl” thread (450+ posts) a while ago, a dozen people tried, over and over again, to drum some basic horse sense into SE. It was hopeless.
It’s frightening that if SE is to be believed, he graduated with honors from a U.S. law school and sat for the bar exam last year. He still hasn’t answered my question whether or not he passed, but if he has, woe unto his clients. (And high-fives between opposing counsel whenever they espy him on the other side in a courtroom).
You would think SE is damn near unemployable, given that low-skill employment opportunities for lawyers such as title searches are being supplanted by technology. Luckily for him, the proliferation of “protected groups” and the need for legal aid in the burgeoning grievance industries means that he can still find work as long as he presents himself as committed to their causes, which is to say, he is seen as sufficiently strident, shrill, and partisan.
And of course, there is always a civil service career. Maybe the Office of Civil Rights in the Department of Education (a dispiritingly-named agency if ever there was one!) is hiring.
4/14/2015 11:37 am
@SE,
Indeed, expulsion is a lesser sanction, and, as such a lesser standard of proof might be acceptable under due process.
But expulsion from a university is not all that which is at stake here - what an accused in a university tribunal faces may be the disruption of expulsion PLUS the horrible stigma of being adjudicated a rapist. Nor does it help that any person hearing of such an adjudication would likely default to believing that the standard of proof was beyond a reasonable doubt.
I submit that DOE did men a disservice when it insisted upon such a standard of proof - were it me, I would require proof by “clear and convincing evidence”, not a mere preponderance.
4/14/2015 12:01 pm
There is nothing to be learned about reality from the fact that Jackie exists. And all the “lessons learned” about journalism are, as Richard says, entirely basic.
There is one other learning opportunity though: how campus radicals coordinate with media and government. The campus radicals need to provide a justification, so they invent scary stories and statistics. The political media promote and defend the stories by claiming anyone insufficiently enthusiastic supports rape. Then government uses the inventions and publicity to justify draconian measures like enforcing kangaroo courts under penalty of losing federal funds and the recently enacted “affirmative consent” laws [which are quite less measured than you would gather from the title].
4/14/2015 1:34 pm
According to the Department of Justice, there are 89,000 rapes annually on average in the United States.
The estimates of false rape are from 2 - 8%.
If we assume the Justice Department’s numbers are accurate, and we take the low end of the false rape scale, we end up 1,780 false accusations of rape.
That’s the number - 1,780 - men annually that SE has no problem unjustifiably punishing and ruining their lives so that we can have “a society” in his words.
… Until it happens to him, of course.
4/14/2015 2:22 pm
The headline and subhead say it all:
A Mother, a Feminist, Aghast
Unsubstantiated accusations against my son by a former girlfriend landed him before a nightmarish college tribunal.
From the Wall Street Journal, April 16, 2024
Google: feminist rape college son site:wsj.com
4/14/2015 2:28 pm
I-Roller —
Failing the bar exam is no indicator of how far up you can fail, or even of your future employ prospects.
Exhibit ‘A': Hillary Clinton, former senator and secretary of state and now running for president for the 2nd time.
She failed the DC bar exam, and yet an adoring media proclaimed her among the top 100 lawyers in 1993.
By the way, is it fair to say that she was among the baggage that Bill brought with him to the White House?
4/14/2015 2:35 pm
Better to respond to SE’s comment than consider them a troll. These people are dead serious. Engage with what they have to say. I don’t know how to respond to someone who says “there are other systems” in response to an affirmation of basic civil liberties, and who argues it is acceptable for rape to be a matter of campus discipline akin to academic discretions that are mostly below the scope of the criminal justice system. Who believes that a conviction by a university kangaroo court in spite of an aqcuittal in the court of law (or a refusal to prosecute due to a lack of evidence) sets a fair, reasonable, and not at all dangerous precedent.
SE echoes many of the loudest voices on the campus rape issue. There is a powerful group of people who think along the same lines, it is obvious in the media, government, and academe. The abuses by university courts handling rape only exist because the goverment and university administrations have formally permitted universities to deal with rape on their own Kafkaesque terms. Whatever expertise you have, law, journalism, anything, please use it to counter SE’s and similar comments.
4/14/2015 2:46 pm
Mary —
I agree with you, but it’s impossible to reason with someone who wears their closed mind like a badge of honor.
4/14/2015 3:34 pm
“[x number of] men annually that SE has no problem unjustifiably punishing and ruining their lives”
You are equating a false rape accusation with a false *adjudication* after all the evidence is thoroughly analyzed. Those are very different. And you are compiling numbers that include many peope outside the university context.
I would guess that the correct figure that might result from the “preponderance” standard is about seven false rape adjudications a decade — “false,” in the sense that the guy was in control of himself and truly didn’t know (even if he reasonably should have) that the woman was not consenting.
Do I have “no problem” with those wrongfully accused men being punished? On the contrary. I think each campus should have a designated officer whose job is equally focused on protecting such men and on making sure rape accusers are fairly heard.
4/14/2015 3:55 pm
Most important of all: When is Erdely going to apologize to the UVA fraterntiy?
4/14/2015 4:39 pm
SE,
Do women need to acquire consent or does the matriarchal mindset just assume men are always at the ready?
Time for title ix lawsuits because boys and men are treated as the presumed guilty party for whom consent need not be acquired
4/14/2015 5:15 pm
>> You are equating a false rape accusation with a false *adjudication* after all the evidence is thoroughly analyzed.
False adjudication? What planet are you living on? If the evidence is thoroughly analyzed and their is no prosecution and/or conviction, it is reasonable to think that there was either no enough evidence to bring a charge or there was reasonable doubt if a charge was brought. I’m a non-attorney, to use your formulation, and even I know that a prosecutor has a duty to not bring charges if he thinks he can’t get a conviction. You and your kind don’t like that, so you want to corrupt the rules and endanger everyone’s civil liberties in order to satisfy your own personal notions of right and wrong.
>> I would guess that the correct figure that might result from the “preponderance” standard is about seven false rape adjudications a decade — “false,” in the sense that the guy was in control of himself and truly didn’t know (even if he reasonably should have) that the woman was not consenting.
Can you give us some scientific research supporting you magic number ~7? Not the blather you usually do — claiming to be someone who has experience in many, many rapes — but actual facts.
Common sense and basic math tell us that it is flat out impossible for you to have experience in ‘many, many’ rapes given the total rapes reported each year, and whatever the number of rape cases that you have worked on, if that is even true, it is statistically immaterial.
I’m with I-Roller on wanting to know if you actually passed the bar exam.
4/14/2015 5:56 pm
You are still talking about criminal charges. My point is that the school disciplinary system is separate and should still sometimes act even if a jail term cannot be obtained. The purpose of this action is different from the purpose of the criminal system, and the “civil liberties” you are talking about simply don’t exist. Due process sometimes yes, “liberty” to not face an accusation at your school no.
4/14/2015 5:57 pm
Obviously women need to discern consent too.
4/14/2015 6:19 pm
Read KC Johnson at Minding the Campus on the travesty of justice at Vassar and the even worse outcome for the accused in the legal system at the hands of a callow judge appointed by the infamous Sen. Kirsten “I have immunity so I can call an innocent man a rapist” Gillibrand.
Yes, if SE can finagle himself into a position of power he’ll be much worse than a troll … he’ll be dangerous as a rattlesnake. If we’re lucky he will end up like the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse “rape” scandal, living on ramen noodle soup in some fleabag motel. If not … ugh, too ugly to contemplate.
4/14/2015 6:29 pm
I got a rattlesnake for ya right here —
4/15/2015 4:59 pm
The headline for the article on Minding the Campus is “The Railroading of Peter Yu”, if anyone is interested.
4/16/2015 6:59 am
Open question:
If the rape, by three men, of an unconscious woman in broad daylight while hundreds of students on spring break watch or ignore the rape and one videotapes it does not indicate that there is a problem with sexual assault in today’s college culture, what does it indicate?
I am, of course, referencing the recent gang rape of a woman in the Florida Panhandle.
4/16/2015 7:26 am
st/UVa77 —
It doesn’t logically follow that because this occurred at a well known spring break party location and where most if not all of the people were students that this is evidence of the college ‘rape culture’ problem. The perpetrators may not have been students, and many of those ignoring the situation were women, among other things.
What is does indicate is a shocking lack of humanity among the bystanders. There is absolutely no reason for them to have ignored the situation — they could have reported the rape even if they didn’t want to try and stop it directly.
4/16/2015 7:45 am
st/UVa77 -
One incident does not prove a trend.
During the start of this entire saga, the Department of Justice, coincidentally, published statistics indicating that 18 to 24 year old women who were enrolled in college were less likely to suffer sexual assault than their non-college-enrolled counterparts.
Discussion of a “college rape culture” insinuates that there is something particular about the college setting which reduces colleges to American affiliates of Boko Haram. Such is simply not consistent with the most reliable compilations of data available.
4/16/2015 10:12 am
Interested Observer,
The perpetrators were students. Also, women have become part of this culture-call it what you will-unwittingly participating in their own potential victimization.
UVa 1991,
I agree that one incident does not constitute a trend. However, I can think of three recent incidents that are very disturbing: the Vanderbilt rape case; the Stanford case in which an athlete allegedly assaulted an unconscious woman; and the Florida Panhandle case.
4/16/2015 10:22 am
Can you think of any disturbing cases that do not involve college students? Or only the ones that do?
4/16/2015 11:21 am
Re: false rape accusation stats I see being discussed. The definition generally used for those stats is the following:
“The determination that a report is false must be supported by evidence that the assault did not happen.” (Lisak; False Allegations of Sexual Assualt: An Analysis of Ten Years of Reported Cases)
In other words, evidence of absence rather than absence of evidence. It’s a high bar to meet. The point here is that this 2-10% number represents only a fraction of false accusations (IMO a minority), those that can be absolutely proven to be false.
Above the posters were quibbling over “accusation” vs. “adjudication”. Adjudication is the worse of two horrible outcomes, but a false rape accusation, in and of itself, can dramatically alter the accused person’s course in life It will certainly turn it into a living hell while the investigation and trial/tribunal is ongoing.
4/16/2015 11:56 am
If anything, the Vanderbilt rape case is affirmation that there is no campus rape culture. Suspicions of rape were discovered accidentally through security footage, and the rape victim was initially disbelieving (because she had no recollection of the night) when informed of it, and yet prosecutors and administration pursued the case anyway. The two main rapists were convicted in court, and people who knew of the rape but did not necessarily participate are also under trial. (All the other cases you have mentioned have resulted in similar arrests.)
The university could have so easily made the issue quietly go away, as rape culture activists claim is happening. Campus rape statistics are wildly inflated, and the claim that an indifferent, near-sociopathic administration and student body hush up rapes has repeatedly not stood up to scrutiny. Activists have shown no willingness let go of either belief, and continue to wrangle everything to fit their narrative, which is scary in and of itself. But there is another damaging aspect to “rape culture”
Rape culture theory contains one claim that does deserve consideration, that universities foster a rape “culture” by encouraging and facilitating rape. An irresponsible campus drinking culture is strongly correlated to allegations of rape, both proven, false, or endlessly ambiguous in that Rashomon way. Yet any attempt to address the problem of binge-drinking as a way to protect students has been shut down by enraged and largely illogical accusations of victim-blaming, itself considered part of “rape culture”. So the one issue that would likely minimize rape crimes on campus is not just invalidated, but prepo turned into preposterous evidence of rape culture. How long until these activists eat their own?
4/16/2015 12:57 pm
In the end, the story was a pack of lies told in furtherance of another, massive lie. The unwillingness of the proponents of the massive lie to be honest about their lie is the reason we have so many convoluted excuses for the pack of lies.
See also, all of the other recent ‘fake but accurate’ assaults by journalists seeking to advance left-wing political causes.
4/16/2015 1:40 pm
Mary,
My reply to you did not post, so I will try again.
I do not believe that we have a meaningful, working definition of the phrase “rape culture”. In fact, I am quite certain that we do not. I do not believe, and I did not state, that universities are involved in creating and covering up “rape culture”. (I know what happened in the Vanderbilt case.) On the contrary, I think that universities are attempting to deal with a difficult and complex societal problem that the two dominant narratives concerning this issue obfuscate-ie, one side insisting there is rape culture; the other side insisting there is not.
Personally, I think “rape culture” is a spin-off of hook-up culture. By that, I mean that hook-up culture presents casual sexual encounters with someone you don’t know as liberating, when, in actuality, such an encounter is potentially dangerous. Students who watch “Fifty Shades of Grey” might want to watch an older movie as well-a movie based on a true event: “Looking for Mr. Goodbar”.
Agree with you on the alcohol.
4/16/2015 3:03 pm
st/UVa77
No doubt (1) college sexual assaults have received a lot of press, but (2) DOJ’s numbers are unassailable as far as I know.
Is it perhaps possible that the press is more prone to report sexual assaults on college women that on their non-college counterparts?
4/16/2015 3:28 pm
UVa1991
“Is it perhaps possible that the press is more prone to report sexual assaults on college women than on their non-college counterparts?”
Definitely. And I would go further-probable.
4/16/2015 3:50 pm
st/UVa77,
I do not know how involved you are in the arenas where rape culture theory formed, but from this comment I’m assuming you are an outside observer. I assure you there is a working definition of rape culture, and there are some (but not all) aspects of rape culture theory that fit into some contexts, such as the Rotterdam tragedy. But you inadvertently raise a really important point: It is not a meaningful definition. It is a rigged term, as anything and everything can be defined as rape culture. In one way, it is incredibly cunning and sophisticated, because it accuses us all of participating in a rape culture unawares. This sloppy use of false consciousness theory should raise a red flag.
At the same time, it is stupidly simplistic, because anything can be defined as rape culture. A sex scene. A lyric. Don’t forget how Blurred Lines was banned in some student clubs. A fashion image. There is no tolerance for grotesque or even just indelicate portrayals of sexuality in the creative arts. It is all rape culture. And any attempt to condemn rape is manipulated as “evidence” that rape culture exists. Cries of victim-blaming over preventative measures is one example. Any criticism of the the “Listen and believe survivors” climate is another. Both are extremely damaging. I’ll respect you for giving rape culture theory more of a benefit of a doubt, but that one side insists there is a rape culture, and the other insists there is not, is really not a helpful way to frame the conflict. It’s rigged so that you can’t prove a negative. We must confront the concept and its assumptions.
Re: Looking for Mr. Goodbar, are you aware of how difficult it is to find that movie? Wiki even talks about it. Too controversial, even for a 70’s movie. Judging from the synopsis, no university today would dare screen the film. It would be too triggering, victim-blaming, and misogynist. It would be held up as a glaring incitement of rape culture, and accused of creating a hostile, unsafe environment. There is no room for being discomforted on sexual themes campus today. Rape culture activists have shut that down too.
4/16/2015 4:25 pm
I wondered when i first heard the song “Tequila makes her clothes fall off” if this song is an example of rape culture, but then after listening to the lyrics i realized it was a cautionary tale.
4/16/2015 4:28 pm
1, 2, 3 men are not the enemy.
Women of quality have no trouble treating men equally
.
The beauty of the campus rape hysteria courts?
Rape liars dont get punished.
4/16/2015 4:33 pm
Feminists demanded hook up culture for decades because marriage and boyfriends were hell for women.
And now that they have the matriarchal distopia they demanded?
They label it a patriarchal rape fest.
Up is labeled down.
Down is labeled.
Criminal justice system is to be ignored in the case of among the most heinous of crimes?
Oh SE, do you suppose women who find a dead body on campus should call the police or just ignore it until they feel ready to woman up and be a full member of society?
4/16/2015 4:42 pm
We on the Left sometimes tell Lies; lies about rape, racism, inequality, etc. We like to do this by making our narrative so vague that we talk evils as “structural” or “privilege”, “rape culture” but then the Right ruins all our fun by insisting these vagaries be supported by, you know, facts.
4/16/2015 8:03 pm
Mary,
Thank you for your reply.
How ironic. In the 1970s, “Looking for Mr. Goodbar” was considered, by some feminists, to be a movie that explored feminist themes.
The phrase “rape culture” has become trite as used by the media. And, it is the media that framed the debate. The public at large is not aware of feminist theory.
In the meantime, some pretty horrific rapes are being committed.
The rape of an unconscious woman renders the concept of “objectification” obsolete. It is psychotic. People standing on the beach and having a party as this happens is beyond the pale.
That is the story. I don’t see it being told.
4/16/2015 10:04 pm
^ ^ If youed want to know why that story isn’t being told, look no further than the race of the alleged perpetrators. Like the actual “rape culture” that was nurtur in Rotherham UK for a decade before it was finally exposed,, it doesn’t fit one of the vital “rape culture” tropes: namely, a member or members of a privileged class asserting its power of privilege over a member or members of an oppressed class.
4/16/2015 10:06 pm
^ “youed” = you
4/16/2015 10:17 pm
You can bet everything you own that if the accused in the Panama City case were white, blond frat boys from a prestigious college or university, that story is all we’d be hearing from the time you wake up until the time you go to bed.
4/17/2015 6:21 am
st/Uva77,
There are vast oceans between the feminists who considered Mr. Goodbar to be thought-provoking to the most vocal and influential feminists today. A recent, admirably measured article called Two Beds and the Burdens touches on this. It may interest you.
The media has not misrepresented the definition of rape culture. If only that was the only problem. The mainstream media actually reflects and echoes the theory that not only are there huge amounts of rape on campus, it is systemic, normalized, and condoned, that people either openly hate women or have internalized misogyny, that rape is celebrated and glorified in the media and arts, and that rapists are protected by the administration and student body. SRE’s article reads like a by-the-book confirmation of rape culture theory, which explains why the damage control to the exposed fraud has been so swift and forceful.
The drastic measures for dealing with rape and sexual assault at universities, the universities poised to be punished under Title IX law under biased, partisan investigations, and the campus fear of being punished for triggering or creating unsafe spaces are a direct response to belief in this theory. The name “No Red Tape” of a campus activist group is the epitome of a belief in rape culture. You are mistaken if you believe academe is not culpable.
I would argue it is also naive to assume academe cares about reducing rape and protecting rape victims, or to be more generous, only cares about that. I’m not going to comment on the Florida gang rape, but when you compare the way feminists responded to the Rotterham rape ring, how they were active participants in a “rape culture” of silencing and threatening concerned voices, and after the crime was exposed, they continue to speak very little of the whole thing, and yet their actions on campus are so forceful…There is clearly another layer, another agenda.
4/18/2015 8:40 am
Mary,
I read the “Two Beds” article. It was quite good. Thank you for the suggestion. I think that Mead’s interpretation is what is most insightful. As you state above, there are vast oceans separating generations of feminists. (For the record, “Goodbar” was a thoroughly horrible movie. I saw it once, and that was enough. But it had a message, and that message still resonates: freedom is not free. It comes with a price tag and with serious caveats.)
The breakdown at Rotterham says it all. If feminists cannot defend-cannot lead the fight against the sexual exploitation of children, then feminism as a movement, as a school of thought, is bankrupt-worse-dead.
Mead quotes Laura Kipnis as follows:
“What do we expect will become of students, successfully cocooned from unacceptable feelings, once they leave the sanctuary of academe for the boorish badlands of real life?”
They run the risk of being gang raped on the beach as their fellow students watch, that’s what. This is our new rape culture. Shame on Erdely and RS for maligning the University of Virginia and Phi Psi, rather than pursuing the truth.
4/19/2015 11:06 am
[…] less socially significant. Media strongly favors reporting sensational crimes against women. The (fabricated) story of a women brutally gang-raped at a University of Virginia fraternity indicates the scope for such […]
4/20/2015 11:31 am
Can Erdely and RS really be that incompetent?
Richard,
I have a son at UVA and have been closely following the Rolling Stone story. I am late to the party in commenting on your post but there is an angle no one has discussed that continues to bother me.
In your post you rightfully destroy Sabrina Erdely as a journalist. But what catches my attention is the near unanimity of other journalist’s critiques that the mistakes made by Erdely and Rolling Stone wouldn’t be made by a beginning journalist. Confirmation bias doesn’t cover why you wouldn’t talk to obvious and easily reached sources that are “quoted”. It is hard to believe that Erdely and RS can be that incompetent.
Your better insight in the post is that even if you take Jackie (and Phi Psi) out of the story you are left with a deeply deceptive story. This is exactly right, and I don’t think this is by accident. Erdely may be a terrible journalist but this is what she is good at. She takes single point of view stories and uses “selective presentation of material, the use of bogus or discredited statistics, quotes that are either fabricated or taken out of context, unconfirmed allegations, anonymous sources, the deliberate exclusion of evidence contrary to the author’s thesis, and material that is either fabricated or presented in a way that is so profoundly misleading it can only be evidence of incompetence or dishonesty”. This is not incompetence but advocating a point of view under the cover of a single source.
So this brings me to a confirmation bias in evaluating the fact checking. Steven Coll looked at the RS files to find out why the truth about Jackie’s story was not uncovered. But I don’t think Erdely and RS were looking for the truth. She had the story pretty well written when she first heard Jackie’s story and decided it was the example for which she had been shopping. Advocating the issue and getting attention is what mattered. The story needn’t be true, just if handled the right way that it might be true or probably couldn’t be proved false. It was certainly a big plus that the story was about a public university that wouldn’t have standing to sue if it was ever discovered to be false.
Remember Erdely has done multiple controversial stories for RS. Shielded by attorney client privilege she must have had extensive interaction on legal issues with the RS lawyers. Remember she is married to a former criminal prosecutor in Philadelphia. Erdely must be well versed in libel laws. My theory is the RS fact checking purpose is not to confirm that a story is true but to assess the risk of embarrassment of being caught in a story that can be proven false (a big difference); and in the event all else fails to contain legal exposure. In the former case RS and Erdely’s reputation would be damaged. The managing editor must have made that call, and I imagine he was quite surprised and upset to find out that Jackie had previously invented Haven Monahan and how easily and quickly this story would unravel. Erdely and RS have deservedly taken major hits to their reputation, but what is done is done.
This brings us to managing legal exposure. Through the CSJ report RS has effectively admitted negligence in publishing the story – exposing them to some modest legal exposure. However what they had to avoid at all costs in publishing Jackie’s story is “actual malice”, a legal term for knowing that the story is untrue that can lead to catastrophic damages. So any doubts in researching the story can’t be documented, the 400 page file has to demonstrate that they believed Jackie. It’s all about plausible deniability. They took Jackie’s word that Ryan Duffin wouldn’t talk to them, they were too incompetent to call easily identifiable Alex Stock and Kathryn Hendley, and they didn’t get suspicious when Jackie’s mom wouldn’t return phone calls. If you hit a research dead-end you cover it up with a pseudonym which makes it hard to challenge the story (or collect damages). Most of all they have to demonstrate that they believed Jackie and will throw her under the bus to do so: RS’s trust in her was misplaced, she is a really expert fabulist, and Erdely and RS’s had doubts only AFTER publication.
Just a theory, but if true what it means is that Steven Coll provided a pre-litigation file review for free (undoubtedly first reviewed by counsel) and the files are ready for discovery. Coll even helpfully opined that RS was incompetent but didn’t publish a story they suspected to be false. Following public relations protocol RS was able to get most of its bad news out all at once. RS will try to win any litigation on technicalities, and if that doesn’t work they will settle for limited “cost of doing business” damages. Nobody gets fired because everyone is in this together. RS lays low for a bit but advocacy journalism goes on. Sabrina Erdely is a terrible journalist, but she has been around too long and written too many stories to accidently be this incompetent.
5/4/2024 1:51 pm
[…] — Richard Bradley […]
5/26/2015 3:02 pm
[…] it may not be. This was one of the reasons that it took a little while for Rolling Stone’s catastrophically disastrous story about casual acceptance of sociopathic sexual assaults at the Univ…. The central narrative of the story is the account of a brutal gang rape supposedly endured by a […]
6/15/2015 9:09 pm
[…] at the University of Virginia had any clue, in the fall of 2012, that a mentally ill freshman named “Jackie” was preparing to blame them in a rape hoax that would lead to national headlines two years […]
6/15/2015 9:36 pm
[…] at the University of Virginia had any clue, in the fall of 2012, that a mentally ill freshman named “Jackie” was preparing to blame them in a rape hoaxthat would lead to national headlines two years […]
7/2/2024 2:05 am
[…] feminists are quick to cry “rape culture!” when it comes an eye-rolling fake rape story about “overwhelmingly blonde” white fraternity brothers, they, along with amnesty activists, downplay the brutal rape culture […]
7/3/2024 1:24 pm
[…] it may not be. This was one of the reasons that it took a little while for Rolling Stone’s catastrophically disastrous story about casual acceptance of sociopathic sexual assaults at the Univ…. The central narrative of the story is the account of a brutal gang rape supposedly endured by a […]
7/3/2024 1:24 pm
[…] it may not be. This was one of the reasons that it took a little while for Rolling Stone’s catastrophically disastrous story about casual acceptance of sociopathic sexual assaults at the Univ…. The central narrative of the story is the account of a brutal gang rape supposedly endured by a […]
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