Jezebel on the Attack—Against Me
Posted on December 1st, 2014 in Uncategorized | 128 Comments »
On Jezebel, a writer named Anna Merlan takes me to task for questioning elements of Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s Rolling Stone story on an alleged gang rape at the University of Virginia.
Referring to me as “a guy by the name of Richard Bradley” who is “now mostly retired” (I am?), Merlan says that my post below is a “giant ball of shit.” (I would love to use that as a book blurb someday.) She doesn’t really say why she thinks I’m so fecally wrong, except that I’m male and, apparently, old, and insufficiently appreciative of Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s “months of work.”
I know it’s Jezebel and all, and no one there is particularly expected to be responsible or even truthful, but in the act of dismissing what I wrote, Merlan profoundly mischaracterizes it.
For example: She says in a comment that….
…Bradley writes ‘we never learn her identity’ as though it’s unusual. As though every other reported piece about rape includes the alleged victim’s name and social security number and weight and height and current address and medication allergies.
I wrote no such thing, and it’s either willful ignorance, ideological blindness or just plain maliciousness on Merlan’s part to suggest otherwise.
Here’s what I wrote:
Jackie is never identified. I don’t love that—it makes me uncomfortable to base an entire story on an unnamed source, and I can’t think of any other situation other than rape where a publication would allow that—but certainly one can see the rationale.
Doesn’t sound quite as bad as Anna Merlan makes it out to be, does it?
I know full well that media outlets don’t publish the names of rape victims without their permission. But if you’re going to base a highly accusatory 9,000-word article on an anonymous source, you should push as hard as you can to get second-hand, named corroboration from, say, the three friends who supposedly saw “Jackie” immediately after the rape.
Merlan also neglects to mention that I’m skeptical because Jackie says she knows the names of two of her alleged rapists, but those names are not printed (why wouldn’t they be?) and so far as one can tell from the article, Sabrina Rubin Erdely never contacted the men; I wonder if she even knows their names. (If she does, how on earth could she not contact them for comment?) And if you read the Washington Post story Merlan refers to, or listen to the Slate podcast SRE did, Rubin Erdely repeatedly dodges the question of whether she knows the identities of the two men allegedlfy involved and if she tried to contact them. I think I count four times in which the Slate interviewer tries to get Rubin Erdely to say whether she contacted the men involved, and each time Rubin Erdely conspicuously avoids answering the question. It’s weird.
Because I could not find an email for Merlan online, I reached out to her via LinkedIn and rather mildly pointed out that I am not retired. She does not seem to have accepted my offer to connect on LinkedIn, but she did subsequently update her Jezebel post thusly:
Correction: A previous version of this post incorrectly said Richard Bradley is retired. In fact, he is the current editor-in-chief of Worth. I regret the error. This is what a professional journalistic correction looks like, in the unlikely event that any editors at Worth or writers at Reason [a writer there also questioned the Rolling Stone story] ever need to issue one.
This is ripe. According to her LinkedIn page, Anna Merlan is a 2010 graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism who has also worked at the Dallas Observer, the Village Voice and now Jezebel—a downward trajectory, you might say, but never mind.
This gives her about four years of professional journalism experience—more if you count her pre-Columbia days—as opposed to my 30 years.
I’m not a big one on harrumphing about kids today and all that, and I’m all for young journalists stirring the pot, but still—how kind of Merlan to identify for me what a “professional journalistic correction looks like”—in an addendum that is exactly not what a professional correction looks like. I’m guessing that using a correction to take a shot at the person you’re making a correction about is not what they taught at CSJ. It certainly isn’t what I taught at CSJ, where I was a tutor in the master’s program for two years. (Merlan and I just missed overlapping.)
I expected to get raked over the coals when I wrote the post below, so this isn’t surprising, and I imagine there’ll be more to come. It’s just disappointing when people do it in such a predictable and shallow way. I wish Merland had actually addressed the substance of what I wrote. Especially coming from a writer at Jezebel, that could have been the beginning of an interesting—maybe even important—conversation.
But I guess you don’t get as many hits that way.
Incidentally, I have emailed Sabrina Rubin Erdely to see if she would answer some questions about the piece. I have not yet heard back. (To be fair, I only emailed a few hours ago, and I am sure she is busy.) So we’ll see.
128 Responses
12/1/2024 6:24 pm
What’s amazing is that your November 24th post got almost zero attention until November 29th.
12/1/2024 6:35 pm
Douchebag
12/1/2024 6:35 pm
i found out about it on november 30 thanks to you, steve.
12/1/2024 7:05 pm
Ask Sabrina if she has used broken glass as a plot device in other stories.
12/1/2024 7:07 pm
I thought your discussion of the article raised a lot of very serious points, esp. not naming the UVa dean who poopooed the whole idea of calling the cops, why keep his name hidden?
12/1/2024 7:12 pm
I think that a story with that magnitude of allegation cannot be written in a responsible manner with the level of sourcing and verification that Sabrina Rubin Erdely provided — you can never get that back if you are wrong.
If kids and parents don’t have the willingness to bring the police authorities in for something of that magnitude, they are irresponsible. Their daughter should be out of that school immediately.
It seems Sabrina Rubin Erdely is acting on a hunch just as much as Jezebel claims you are.
Leftism is pathological, they never have to reconcile their contradictions to themselves. We waste our time pointing them out, because they are meaningless to the liberal, and everyone else with any common sense doesn’t need to hear us repeating the obvious and evident.
I don’t know what happened. I do know that Rolling Stone acted irresponsibly by publishing something so terribly sourced and the parents and friends acted irresponsibly if this is real and the police were not brought in immediately.
12/1/2024 7:22 pm
If I had been the victim, you would be reading a story from my prison cell. As soon as I was past the initial trauma, I would formulate a plan. After a dry run, I would walk up alongside sweet Drew on the campus and stick a shiv in him. When he went down, I would then castrate him as he was dying.
12/1/2024 7:35 pm
If there’s one thing that encourages me about how this story will get resolved, it’s that UVA has, apparently, handed it over to the police to investigate.
I also have to believe that precisely because it depicted named individuals at UVA in the administration as being derelict in their duties (at best), those individuals will pursue it until it is fully exposed as a fraud-and it is almost certainly a fraud. They have their own reputations to protect at this point, and aren’t going to be in a mood just to whitewash the dissemination of the false allegations.
12/1/2024 7:43 pm
I am a former journalist who also had to deal with petty, poorly-written attacks from Gawker Media, which owns Jezebel.
If you don’t mind some advice, stand your ground. If you capitulate and scrub your blog posts or apologize, they’ll smell blood and it will turn into a shark attack — with your on the wrong end.
This unprofessional style of “journalism” is, in fact, how they get Web hits, so you called that. As for “ideological blindness,” well, you called that too, sad to say. Expecting reasoned discourse with Gawker Media is like expecting the National Enquirer not to sensationalize.
12/1/2024 7:56 pm
Jezebel, like most feminist sites, is a totalitarian hug box, filled with social cripples, it’s silly to think you’d get any sort of rational debate out of them. They’re the pseudo-intellectualization of the cookie dough the fat girl eats when she can’t get a date on Saturday night.
12/1/2024 7:58 pm
Jezebel writers are not used to getting called out for their nonsense. (And even less used to responding with professionalism instead of snark.) I’m glad to see you’re sticking to your guns.
12/1/2024 8:04 pm
Mr. Bradley, you’re essentially arguing with a know-it-all, smart-alecky teenager. You deserve sympathy.
12/1/2024 8:05 pm
@ J “totalitarian hug box, filled with social cripples”
Great phrase. I’ll try to remember it.
12/1/2024 8:08 pm
Don’t take any of what they say as meaningful or even as cognizance. It’s just spitting and sputtering performed to attract attention, and get ad revenue.
We (the younger generation) grow up around this shit and have been brought up with it being taught as real journalism.
This is what schools now teach.
12/1/2024 8:09 pm
You have 30 years experience in journalism, then you know what you wrote would have never passed the mustard with any editor. You have no other news to add to the report. The entire post reads like you believe there was a conspiracy afoot or outright fabrication by Rolling Stone, yet you do not bring anything to light to support this. You only ask “questions”?. This is a tactic of conspiracy theorists everywhere and with your 30 years of experience you surely know the difference between a sourced article and the thing that you wrote (which would be more at home at the old World Daily News. Are aliens among us? Just asking questions..)
12/1/2024 8:10 pm
They learned from the Duke Lacrosse case. This time they have an accuser whose veracity can’t be questioned: for she doesn’t exist.
12/1/2024 8:24 pm
Take it as a badge of honor.
The events as described in the original Rolling Stone article are so outlandish the only question is whether it’s a complete hoax or bad one-night-stand experience regrets. I’m leaning with the former, although that could change.
And it’d probably be a good idea to acknowledge the blogger who has linked to you twice.
12/1/2024 8:28 pm
“you know what you wrote would have never passed the mustard with any editor”
The phrase is “never have passed muster”, child.
12/1/2024 8:36 pm
From the Washington Post interview with Sabrina Rubin Erdely:
Erdely spent weeks corroborating details of Jackie’s account, including such minutiae as her work as a lifeguard. She concluded: “I find her completely credible. It’s impossible to know for certain what happened in that room, because I wasn’t in it. But I certainly believe that she described an experience that was in¬cred¬ibly traumatic to her.”
This whole article could be read as a weaselly legalese way of SRE backing off from the truthfulness of her article. Credible means “convincing or able to be believed” which is a standard below that of “true”. In other words, if the story turns out to be false, it is not SRE’s fault since she was only going off Jackie’s words which she judged credible. No mention that a journalist’s job goes far beyond just believing their sources.
The next sentence, “It’s impossible to know” is SRE walking back the truthfulness of the tale and absolving herself of guilt if it later turns out to be false. After all she posits, how can a journalist be expected to know the truth if they were not themselves in the room witnessing each assault on that bed of shattered glass? No mention that it is a journalist’s job to do all that boring work of confirming know facts and searching for inconsistencies. Instead it appears the only fact she actually confirmed is that Jackie had indeed worked as a lifeguard. Wow!
And is “described an experience that was incredibly traumatic to her” the same as describing an experience that has actually occurred in real life? A dream or a vision is an experience that can certainly be traumatic but not actually describe an event that occurred in the real world.
But the real kicker from the WP article was the statement, “In any case, there have been no outright denials from any party about the alleged crime Erdely reported”. So if I make accusations against unnamed individuals, I can then use as evidence of truth the fact that none of these potentially imaginary perpetrators ever issued a denial? Is this the level journalism has sunk to?
Thousands of black men were lynched over the years as a result of false rape claims so this topic must be taken much more seriously. In the name of these lynching victims, Rubin-Ederly and the other women throwing these accusations around have to come down from their perches of privilege and start producing names and verifiable facts.
12/1/2024 8:39 pm
Your November 24th post is getting picked more broadly this afternoon, such as by the Wall Street Journal and a couple of mentions on Bloomberg. Judith Shulevitz mentioned it on Facebook.
12/1/2024 9:02 pm
A note to any serious, credentialed, old-school print media journalist reading this:
Just in case Richard Bradley is too busy with his other projects to do investigative reporting in-person, or simply doesn’t want to get further involved for whatever reason, my offer of $1,000 as a gift remains on the table. Just put up a donate button, Mr. Bradley.
Now. As I wrote above, if you are a brave, ambitious, legitimate journalist who wants to find out the truth in this matter, I will kick off *your* Kickstarter with $1,000.
We need boots on the ground; we need to get to the bottom of this *extraordinary* narrative — no matter what it takes, and no matter whose oxen are gored.
So whether it’s Richard or some other person — let’s get it done. Be aggressive; don’t accept evasion; find the truth; and make your results public.
That is journalism. Let’s show the web how it’s done.
12/1/2024 9:31 pm
Who is “Me” and whom is he or she calling a bad name?
12/1/2024 9:53 pm
This is rich:
“You only ask “questions”?. This is a tactic of conspiracy theorists everywhere…”
Where as real journalists just accept stories without asking questions. Yes, that makes perfect sense.
12/1/2024 9:57 pm
In the water cooler conversation over the past few weeks, every time I bring up exercising caution in judgment because of the Duke Lacrosse case, it is SHOCKING how many people had no idea the eventual outcome of that case. That’s what reflexive, emotional writers like Anna Merlan don’t grasp. When you try cases in the court of opinion before facts and identities are revealed, you risk ruining lives and reputations. It’s the news junkies reading this who get to the Pg. 17 corrections, but 90% of people are headline readers (see Meghan Lanker-Simons, Alicia Hardin, Professor Madonna Constantine, Professor Patricia Williams, Alexandra Panell, Joseph Banken, incidents at Hofstra, Oberlin, Vassar for examples of sensational sexual assaults and hate crimes that received national media attention upon first reporting, and almost no attention when they were proven to be hoaxes.)
Bradley’s challenge isn’t idiotic at all, Ms. Merlan. To test gathered evidence against your own built-in bias is the duty of any trained journalist. And my bet is, should the police investigation confirm the story as reported, Mr. Bradley will be the one publicly eating crow, while, if proven to be a hoax, you (like Nancy Grace and the rest of the media after Duke Lacrosse) will be back to an alternate reality with only entitled white male villains much like ABC’s Scandal.
12/1/2024 10:03 pm
Stick to your guns, mate. We need people like you.
12/1/2024 10:08 pm
Judith Shulevitz (wife of Nicholas Lemann, former dean of Columbia Journalism School) writes about Bradley’s post in The New Republic:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120450/sabrina-rubin-erdelys-uva-gang-rape-reporting-raises-questions
12/1/2024 10:36 pm
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and directly attack Jackie’s character. Feel free to delete this comment.
Violent rape is a crime basically just a step short of murder. Certainly it carries similar punishments to crimes such as lesser degrees of murder.
According to Jackie, nine violent rapists roamed free on the UVa campus for two years, because she was too afraid to go to the police. Brave enough to go to the campus administration, and brave enough to speak publicly, and then brave enough to speak to the press - but not brave enough to go to the police.
Nine violent rapists roamed the UVa campus, undisturbed, because Jackie was afraid to go the cops. Didn’t her sense of ethics compel her to do something concrete about these horrible criminals? Remember, these are essentially murderers, in the strictest sense of the word, and she is allowing them to roam free. This isn’t the Mafia we are talking about, who have threatened her entire family if she speaks out. These are tanned, blond white boys.
Nine violent rapists - these are on a par with murderers - roamed free for two years because Jackie was unwilling to go to the most logical persons to help put these thugs behind bars. God knows how many other innocent young women they plundered while she did nothing.
Really. Where was Jackie’s sense of ethics?
Does anyone really believe she was too afraid to go to the police, but not too afraid to go to the university administration, not too afraid to speak out on campus, and not too afraid to tell the whole story to the press? What kind of bizarre moral code does this woman live under, anyway?
12/1/2024 10:43 pm
Mr. Bradley:
I really appreciate you writing this piece, and the attention it’s getting. I was shocked to read the RS article, both by the horror of the story and by the fact that it read like such a hit piece. And to realize by the end of the article that Ms. Erderly never interviews another witness, accuser, friend, associate or anybody that could to corroborate (or dispel) the account by Jackie just astonished me. I don’t hold high expectations for Rolling Stone’s journalistic standards, but I really couldn’t believe they could publish such a long article that was so very short on facts or investigative effort.
Thanks for this. I only wish we had a stronger investigative effort being expended by journalists to get to the bottom of this!
12/1/2024 10:47 pm
At Long Last-
I’m sort of flabbergasted and very much flattered by your offer. It’s very generous of you. I don’t know if I’ll do more with this—I’m thinking about it—but I don’t think I can accept the offer. I’m afraid that someone would try to use that to attack the credibility of my work and my motivation for doing it. I’ve never tried to make money off this blog for just that reason; I didn’t want to be sensational just to get hits just to drive ad revenue or something. But I tell you what: Drop me a line at [email protected], and if I do decide to do a more reported project, maybe you could help with that. Thanks and best wishes, Richard
12/1/2024 10:52 pm
Thank you for taking this fight, kind sir!
12/1/2024 10:59 pm
Richard,
You’re very welcome. I considered that you might not accept my offer for exactly the reasons you’ve outlined above — so your refusal doesn’t surprise me at all.
I didn’t know your name or your work before being linked to your first post on this matter, but when I read it, I was stunned. I was stunned that anyone in our current cultural atmosphere would dare to interrogate a narrative that had already become myth.
The word “brave” is thrown around like confetti, but your post was exactly that. I was moved by it; it made me think back to the time when journalism was a real force, and a honest and rigorous vocation.
So, thank you. I will be in touch.
12/1/2024 11:00 pm
I came here by way of iSteve and I appreciated your measured response to Ms. Merlan, who by her LinkedIn photo looks about as unpleasant as she comes across in her article, but what do I know. In any event, I look forward to visiting your blog again. Keep up the good work. As I am sure you know there are many more silent supporters than these shrill responders.
12/1/2024 11:23 pm
Some observations
1. I completely believed the story of the UVA rape when I first read about it. It wasn’t until I stumbled across your blog post that I realized I had been subtly mislead as to the veracity of the claims.
2. A future investigation will reveal that the story is either a. an outright lie or completely without any corroborating witnesses.
3. Sabrina, will not ever print a retraction or mea culpa when this is proved.
4. Steve Sailor is right about his post being the catalyst to whole, this story is a hoax story. I feel sorry for him, as he points out consistently, his un-orthodox views mean he will never get credit for many of the stories he inspires. Of course, it is a bit sad when he points this out.
5. Sabrina really really came across as a bitch in her story and even more so in her comments. That snarky “correction” just goes to show how un-reasonable she really is. I’m willing to bet in real life she is “bat shit crazy”and exactly the sort of woman who would falsely claim rape if upset.
12/1/2024 11:33 pm
Good work, Mr. Bradley. Keep it up. There is a story here, just not the one Rolling Stone and Sabrina Rubin Erdely and Anna Merlan have told, and not one they will enjoy reading.
If you haven’t already, check out the comment by Mad Bowl on your original post. The core part:
12/1/2024 11:35 pm
The RS story plays on culture-bound fears, is stacked with implausible details, is poorly sourced, lacks verisimilitude, and seems to appropriate a variety of narrative devices.
On that last point, the use of the pronoun “it” is a tell (as Richard Bradley has noted by reference to the famous line from “Silence of the Lambs”). Here I want to reiterate what I perceive to be another suspicious feature by copying my comment from Sailer’s blog, where I wrote: “The element about the victim’s acquaintance from the anthropology discussion group reminds me of a trope that comes up in the ‘rape-revenge’ sub-genre of slasher films, such as ‘Last House on the Left’ and ‘I Spit on Your Grave.’ The idea is that even the low-ranking ‘good guy’ of the group (who might be dull-witted or simply softhearted) will give in to the evil momentum in response to male peer pressure. It’s sort of an ‘et tu’ moment that suggests, along with the practical implausibilities in how the story is blocked, that a narrative is being concocted.”
A police investigation, properly conducted, should uncover the truth. I think the story is almost certainly made up. The question is whether it was made up by the reporter’s source, or by the reporter herself.
12/1/2024 11:39 pm
It’s truly amazing that, as far as I can tell, Ms. Erdely has not named a single source who can verify this story. Not one of Jackie’s rapists. Not one of her friends. Nobody at the party. Nobody in the administration. Nobody who treated her for glass cuts. Nobody but Jackie, but hey, that really is her name! And she did work as a lifeguard! And she was really convincing!
12/2/2024 12:09 am
Not really relevant, but, man, is that Anna Merlan hard on the eyes.
12/2/2024 12:34 am
Ian (and all commenters),
Let’s follow Richard’s lead and confine ourselves to the facts of the matter.
The only thing that matters is that the truth be brought to light. Let’s focus with great intensity on establishing the facts.
Insulting comments about this or that writer, “feminists,” “women,” etc. are not helpful.
We need to find out if Rubin-Erderly and “Jackie” lied — and if they did — we need to hold them and their enablers at Rolling Stone accountable.
That is the only goal. Please focus on it.
12/2/2024 12:54 am
“The only thing that matters is that the truth be brought to light.”
I disagree. As former writer, I feel the only thing that matters is “the narrative.” If this story is proven to be a fabrication, the media will immediately sweep it under the carpet and go onto the next “crisis.”
Did anyone read any stories about what happened to the Duke kids after their trial-by-media? Didn’t think so.
Anyway, after that, Ms. Erdely will get her Hollywood script deal because sensationalism and fame matter more than truth. Even if she’s “disgraced” she will be able to pen a memoir about her life and how it led to this story and then profit from that.
There is no “truth” anymore, just the media’s manipulation of reality for profit.
The Clash once sang the line “You can be true, you can be false, you will be given the same reward.” That might have been true in 1980, but today being “false” nets an even greater reward, so long as you feed the media the narrative it seeks.
12/2/2024 12:55 am
Classic. Fighting over this person’s credibility instead of listing to the real story: there is WAAAYY too much tolerance of rape at these big frat/sport schools. Just read the words of that “Rugby Road” fight song and tell me UVA is a place that takes rape seriously.
12/2/2024 12:56 am
In case you haven’t seen it-just one of the verses:
“All you girls from Mary Washington/ And R.M.W.C., never let a Cavalier an inch above your knee/ He’ll take you to his fraternity house and fill you full of beer/ And soon you’ll be the mother of a bastard Cavalier!”
hahah what a hilarious song!
12/2/2024 12:57 am
Here’s another article questioning the reporting and veracity of the RS piece:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-uva-rape-rolling-stone-20141202-column.html
12/2/2024 1:07 am
Juliette,
There is only one story here: the alleged gang rape of Jackie, as told by Rubin-Erderly in Rolling Stone magazine.
We need to establish whether or not that *specific story* is true or false.
No one cares about anything else right now. We need to know the facts. We need to know what the police are doing right now to investigate these extraordinary allegations.
12/2/2024 1:10 am
Keep up the good work.
If anyone gets to the bottom of this, we’ll surely find out some of these details have been fabricated.
Unfortunately, the story seems structured so that Erdely can pin the blame for any falsehoods on her sources…
12/2/2024 1:19 am
Can anyone else confirm PapayaSF’s breakdown of UVA fraternity procedures? What he describes sounds consistent with what I know at a couple other universities w/r/t/ Greek life, but would like additional corroboration if anyone (or PapayaSF) can provide links to the Phi Psi or IFC handbook or white papers laying out these rules/procedures.
12/2/2024 1:24 am
“hahah what a hilarious song!”-
So the veracity of this story is irrelevant, because even if were made up (in whole or in part), it has helped shed light on a serious problem (rape culture at UVA). Is this an accurate reflection of what you believe? That’s despicable.
This person’s credibility is derived from the story- if it’s proved false, or that she didn’t contact/try to contact others involved, or seek out further corroboration, and/or did and ignored/excluded contradictory evidence, then she won’t have any.
12/2/2024 2:01 am
“Merlan also neglects to mention that I’m skeptical because Jackie says she knows the names of two of her alleged rapists, but those names are not printed (why wouldn’t they be?)”
Mr. Bradley, are you genuinely curious as to why their names would not be printed? You don’t have the slightest clue why publishing the names of people who have not been convicted of crimes and putting it in the court of public opinion is, at best, journalistic idiocy and, at worst, extremely dangerous?
If you don’t fully believe that Ms. Rubin Erdely did, to the fullest extent, her journalistic duty, I’m curious as to why you’re attempting to poke holes in the story and not investigating this matter further yourself.
“Jackie is never identified. I don’t love that—it makes me uncomfortable to base an entire story on an unnamed source, and I can’t think of any other situation other than rape where a publication would allow that—but certainly one can see the rationale.” You tried to put Ms. Merlan on the hot seat for calling you out on this section even though you clearly want this woman whose allegedly been raped to have her name out there only to be dragged through the mud. You want to know here name because not knowing it makes you “uncomfortable”?
Do you know what I think would be uncomfortable, Mr. Bradley? Trying to recount the worst night of my life to a reporter just so someone out there would listen, say something, do something; and then having people, people like you, question the veracity of my statements only to ignore the monumental gravity of the situation.
12/2/2024 2:17 am
Chris W.,
The “monumental gravity” of the situation has yet to be disclosed, to wit: did the alleged crime take place, or not? if not, how were these extraordinary allegations ever allowed to be printed?
We have one anonymous source and a writer who offers us her assurance that her source is “credible.”
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Mr. Bradley is asking for that evidence, no more no less. Once an allegation of this seriousness is made, it becomes a matter for law enforcement and the criminal justice system. “Uncomfortable” is of little consequence when someone is claiming that there are no fewer than *7* violent rapists at large. (!)
Let’s bring this to court and air all the facts. The die is cast; only the facts will bring us to the truth of the matter.
12/2/2024 2:31 am
I submitted the following comment at Jezebel. It’s “pending,” but I highly doubt the thread Nazis will post it. The posted comments are 99% slavishly supportive of the narrative and Anna Merlan. The pending comments are much more evenly split. I expect the critical comments to be gone by morn.’
Pending approval Nicholas Stix [to] Anna Merlan
“‘She won’t say, for example, whether she knows the names of Jackie’s alleged attackers or whether in her reporting she approached ‘Drew,’ the alleged ringleader, for comment. She is bound to silence about those details, she said, by an agreement with Jackie, who ‘is very fearful of these men, in particular Drew. . . .’”
Anna Merlan, can you please help me? As soon as I read those words, my B.S. detector went off, and I haven’t been able to turn it off since!
While it is customary these days to not identify by name a rape victim without the vic’s permission, the notion that an “investigative reporter” could get away without naming anyone involved (vic’s friends, known attackers, etc.) is such a red flag that no reasonably intelligent person, journalist or civilian, would buy it. It screams, “Hoax!” If you were an investigative reporter, as you claim to be, you would never have fallen for it.
P.S. By the way, Merlan’s supporters and other feminists are all “freeping” your previous item on this story as “offensive.”
P.P.S. Although Anna Merlan’s rant is nothing but despicable click-bait, she doesn’t have the decency to give you any clicks in return. She has used a link service that cuts you out of any hits from the links to you.
That “black hole of the universe,” Wikipedia, has done the same thing for years, sucking billions of hits from other sites, while using outgoing “no follow” links, in order to rob other sites of hits.
12/2/2024 2:44 am
Mr. Bradely,
Men who find the truth are needed like never before. False rape accusations are very common and the manipulated statistics that serve to perpetuate this rape culture myth are obvious to the critical eye.
20 minutes reviewing credible research that many commenters here can provide will at least pique your curiousity as to hpw bad this has gotten.
Sir, men’s lives are turned upside down every day from these accusations. No matter what happens in court, a man who is accused of this will always have people whispering behind his back and even his closest friends will always wonder if maybe, just maybe he is capable of that.
Virtually nothing happens to these men’s accusers, they blend back into whatver lifestlye they had while telling anyone that will listen about how they “were raped once”.
They will do this at their convenience when they want to espouse protective sentiments in their current boyfriends and they will ise it to justify some embarrassing emotional breakdown so as not to be held accountable.
I know this sounds completely unfeasible to a rational person but it is a disgusting reality.
One commenter mentioned black men being lynched but these false accusations go further back to the salem which trials where women made false accusations about other women and beyond.
Please observe that violence in the US is really at an all time low but the war on men continues.
There is something like a 5000% greater occurence of burgerly than rape but we don’t hear about a “culture of thievery”.
The fact is that rape is something that most men (and women) find completely repugnant but the current narritive would have you believe that every man is a potential rapist.
Look at how jezebel attacked you in such a ridiculous manner.
Consider how large their audience is.
Consider how many women simply believe that you are a nobody who is out of your depth simply because a gawker media writer said so.
Someone like you could find the truth to this story, and expose this raunchy journalism for what it is and give these men that have had their lives ruined at least some amount of comfort that not everyone believes they are scum.
Consider for a moment how outlandish it would be for a woman to falsly cry rape.
Then think back for a moment and ask yourself have you ever heard a woman say to a bouncer “he’s bothering me” when she just wants to teach some kid with a smart mouth a lesson.
Or when a woman looks over at her boyfriend and says “are you going to let him talk to me that way”?
Women will say a man did all sorts of things but it always surrounds being scorned or avoiding responsibility.
Whether she cheated on her boyfriend while drunk or as I speculate in this case, Jackie needed a plausible reason for doing poorly in school.
I want the truth to be exposed and that does not make me a rape apologist. It makes me a dad with twin daughters that doesn’t want them growing up thinking it’s ok to throw a man’s life away for nothing. Everyone knows rape is a horrible thing, what few consider is how horrible being falsely accused is.
12/2/2024 3:01 am
I thought it was Jackie who was the lifeguard. I don’t recall reading a claim that one of the brothers worked as a lifeguard.
12/2/2024 3:46 am
“She won’t say, for example, whether she knows the names of Jackie’s alleged attackers or whether in her reporting she approached ‘Drew,’ the alleged ringleader, for comment. She is bound to silence about those details, she said, by an agreement with Jackie, who ‘is very fearful of these men, in particular Drew. . . .”
What are we to make of this description? That Jackie ex ante or at any time requested that she never state whether or not she even KNOWS the names of the attackers or even APPROACHED “Drew” for comment. Why would Jackie not want that information disclosed?
12/2/2024 7:11 am
First of all, excellent reporting; great job. Screw Jezebel, not literally of course. They era generally a bunch of hyper-angry feminists who can’t understand why they live in a capitalist society or even what it is, writing angry hit pieces of zero-worth. No doubt not having a victim here means that it’s that much easier for them to bleat on about injustice and that much harder for fact-seekers to disprove a negative… I’ve been banging the drums on another website devoted to lacrosse, ever since RS published, as a sly reminder to my fellow lacrosse-heads that the Duke hoax should never be forgotten, and the Gang of 88 will be held accountable for their bias. The holes in Erdeley’s story are vast and irreconcilable.
12/2/2024 7:47 am
Chip Smith notes:
“The RS story plays on culture-bound fears, is stacked with implausible details, is poorly sourced, lacks verisimilitude, and seems to appropriate a variety of narrative devices.”
The meta-question is why so few writers of any prominence except Mr. Bradley pointed this out before the dams broke loose on December 1st. Ms. Rubin Erdely clearly knows the right buttons to push in 2014.
I’m reminded of the vast success of “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.” In any kind of empirical sense, these immensely popular Swedish novels and movies are more than a little demented, but obviously a lot of people get off on hate porn of that ilk.
12/2/2024 7:54 am
[…] Writer Anna Merlan never manages to answer any of the questions raised by those concerned about the journalism practices but she does manage to spew out errors and mischaracterize those who do have questions (you can read more here or here). […]
12/2/2024 8:01 am
Juliette, as a woman your post angers me immensely. You flippantly seem to think it’s ok to make stuff up to get your point across. If this story turns out to be false, who gets hurt? REAL RAPE VICTIMS, who will have their credibility called into question based on these proven false claims.
No one is denying that sexual assault is a serious problem, at UVA and elsewhere. Making up stories about it is not right or helpful.
12/2/2024 8:03 am
Richard-
Thank you for initiating a meaningful debate on responsible journalism. I know little about UVA or its fraternities, but I do know that the RS article has the potential to ruin lives. By not naming the alleged rapists, the article condemns all male students at UVA as belonging to a “culture of rape.” If “Jackie’s” story is proven to be false or substantially embellished, future rape victims are less likely to be believed. With such enormous consequences, journalistic integrity demands that the incident be fact-checked and reported in a manner that beyond reproach; it was not.
I am glad to see that others are now questioning reporting methods employed by the RS:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120450/sabrina-rubin-erdelys-uva-gang-rape-reporting-raises-questions
http://online.wsj.com/articles/bret-stephens-uva-ferguson-and-media-failure-1417478164
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-12-01/the-uva-rape-story-gets-more-scrutiny
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-uva-rape-rolling-stone-20141202-column.html
12/2/2024 8:13 am
Perhaps the salient difference between the Jackie character in the Rolling Stone text and Tom Wolfe’s freshman coed Charlotte Simmons, who is plunged into suicidal depression after losing her virginity semi-consensually to a handsome but callous fraternity boy, is that Charlotte is intensely studious and literal minded and can’t take refuge in fantasy. I’ve been around people with emotional traumas, and some of them have found comfort in being able to externalize their woes into a conspiracy theory. In the Rolling Stone piece, most of the people who know Jackie well treat her the way you’d treat somebody who claimed to be the victim of an alien abduction and anal probing: you’d mostly try to get your friend to change the subject. You’d be leery of confronting her too directly with the fact that you don’t believe her narrative, but you’d try to get her to talk about something else. Maybe, like Dean Eramo, you’d search out a more receptive audience for the person.
If this perspective is helpful, it explains why Rubin Erdely couldn’t get any sources: they were less trying to cover up for UVA than cover up for poor Jackie.
12/2/2024 8:14 am
“I don’t recall reading a claim that one of the brothers worked as a lifeguard.”
From the original Rolling Stone article: “Four weeks into UVA’s 2012 school year [she was brutally raped] […] She and Drew had met while working lifeguard shifts together at the university pool, and Jackie had been floored by Drew’s invitation to dinner, followed by a “date function” at his fraternity, Phi Kappa Psi.”
The Rolling Stone article claims the following facts:
* One Drew was a member of Phi Kappa Psi (PKP)
* Said Drew worked as a lifeguard with Jackie
* Four weeks into UVA’s fall term, she went to a PKP party where she was raped
Now, when did this party supposedly happen? We can get the weekend of September 28th from this: In 2012, UVA’s first day of fall class was August 28. Four weeks after that is September 25th, and that weekend started on the 28th.
The following has been claimed by an anonymous source (see the comments above):
* PKP had no party on the weekend of September 28th.
* No member of PKP has ever worked as a life guard
So, what few verifiable facts there are in the original RS article are falsehoods.
12/2/2024 8:23 am
For example, consider all the otherwise puzzling scenes in the Rolling Stone text where people who know Jackie well pay little attention to her horrific tales of mayhem. For example,
“This past spring, in separate incidents, both Emily Renda and Jackie were harassed outside bars on the Corner by men who recognized them from presentations… One flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye.”
[By the way, the article is bizarrely obsessed with glass, shattered and intact.]
“She e-mailed Eramo so they could discuss the attack – and discuss another matter, too, which was troubling Jackie a great deal. Through her ever expanding network, Jackie had come across something deeply disturbing: two other young women who, she says, confided that they, too, had recently been Phi Kappa Psi gang-rape victims.
“A bruise still mottling her face, Jackie sat in Eramo’s office in May 2014 and told her about the two others. …
“As Jackie wrapped up her story, she was disappointed by Eramo’s nonreaction. She’d expected shock, disgust, horror.”
At this point, Dean Eramo had been patiently listening to Jackie for a year.
Jackie’s encounter with the arch-conspirator Drew is similarly disconcerting:
“She’d recently been aghast to bump into Drew, who greeted her with friendly nonchalance. “For a whole year, I thought about how he had ruined my life, and how he is the worst human being ever,” Jackie says. “And then I saw him and I couldn’t say anything.””
12/2/2024 9:05 am
Chris W., so apparently anyone can accuse anyone anonymously. Do you know what happens when you anonymously said “I was gang-raped by 7 UVa students but I won’t name them”? You paint all the UVa male students are rapists now because the public doesn’t know who. All members of the fraternity now are now looked suspiciously as a rapist. Innocent men are being dragged together instead of only the accused.
And if you felt it’s fine to report your rape to a journalist so that it can be read by thousands of readers around the world but not the police who can granted you anonymity, of course I would be skeptical of the claim. In fact I am skeptical about rape cases who victims go telling around everyone but never report to the police. What kind of bizarro world that rape victims are comfortable telling it to the public but not to the police? It should be the other way around or both.
12/2/2024 9:12 am
Sabrina Rubin Erdely and Rolling Stone should not have exploited a troubled young woman.
12/2/2024 9:39 am
Steve Sailer
Bingo. If Jackie’s story was true, it should not have been exploited; she is a deeply troubled young woman who does not seem willing to swallow her fears and contact law enforcement.
After all, nine violent felons roam free. Nine sociopathic criminals, who committed premeditated violent rape, roam free. This is not news; this is an urgent matter for law enforcement.
12/2/2024 10:05 am
I liked the part where Coach Reardon has to spank all the cheerleaders.
12/2/2024 10:16 am
“This past spring, in separate incidents, both Emily Renda and Jackie were harassed outside bars on the Corner by men who recognized them from presentations… One flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye.”
A breaking bottle does a lot more damage than that!
12/2/2024 10:49 am
“One flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye.
She e-mailed Eramo so they could discuss the attack”
Do they have police? Or do the deans do all the law enforcement via email during office hours at UVa? And anyone break a bottle over their face recently? 50/50 shot of shattering your orbit or shattering the bottle, and you’ll have serious cuts if it’s the bottle that goes.
12/2/2024 10:54 am
It’s hard to make out how much of the story might have been made up by Erderly, and how much by Jackie, but I’d have to guess that it was almost entirely contrived by Jackie, but deliberately not verified by Erderly, who likely realized she was dealing with someone not entirely right in the head.
So who would make up such an over-the-top story?
Someone with Münchausen syndrome. If you’ve ever encountered such a person, you know how readily they will lie about anything, and how quickly they get to a point of absurdity in their details: they will say what seems to them best at getting a reaction, completely untethered from reality.
12/2/2024 10:55 am
I’m glad these comments examine female mental stability using such pertinent examples as the Salem witch trials. The “crazy women” line is just so well tread at this point, can’t we stick to the facts at hand?
Also: in case you don’t know, female attractiveness doesn’t correlate to mental acuity, so attacking Jezebel writer appearance just highlights pettiness and shallowness.
I’m not here to argue with you about “bat shit crazy” women who “regret one night stands and call rape,” there are real cases of this, sure, but their (minuscule, statistically, I worked with sexual health on an Ivy League campus) existence doesn’t negate that real rape happens, it is often unreported, and it is deeply and terribly traumatizing. The whole ‘whore regretting her whoring’ is a misogynistic trope that removes personal agency and responsibility. Convenient if you are the dude that sleeps with an unconscious woman. She was asking for it. She wanted it.
Do any of you know what it is like to be raped? You are terrified, violated in the most brutal and literal sense of the word, and considered an outcast. At my Ivy League, rape was treated the way many crimes (e.g. those requiring restraining orders) are: kept hush hush to keep alumni donations coming in. It is stigmatized. You cannot be part of the social life, at all. There are jokes about you spray painted in frat basements. There is huge pressure to keep quiet.The simple fact that a woman didn’t want to go to the police is not evidence that she has no substantive evidence of a crime.
I am not sure the Rolling Stone story is accurate, I agree there needs to be careful vetting of sources and examination of records — without politicization. I just wonder why the gut response of people commenting on this blog is to vilify women.
12/2/2024 11:28 am
Mr. Bradley,
You raise legitimate questions. However, by linking Jackie’s case to the Tawana Brawley case, you run the risk of doing a great disservice to this ongoing conversation. Is it possible that having been misled before, this predisposes you, to a degree (I read your initial response) to go too far in the other direction?
Universities across the nation have a serious problem with campus rape, and have for decades. Let’s look at other cases, in which the facts are in. Liz Seccuro’s story might have seemed unbelievable in the 1980s, but, it turns out, she was telling the truth. Or, more recently, as reported in a phone interview at Jezebel, a young woman who was raped had a witness whom she did not know, but who corroborated her account, and the man she accused of assaulting her was convicted, if memory serves me correctly.
Women are being raped on campus. There is no doubt about that. Many of their stories may seem unbelievable, too, or maybe we just don’t want to believe them because they are so disturbing.
I have read Jackie’s story again, and I believe it. Jackie, herself, has distanced herself somewhat from the writer of the RS article by writing a letter to the Cavalier Daily in support of Dean Eramo.
There is no doubt that Erdely is working from a set of assumptions. Yet, so are you, so am I, so are we all. The RS article is a brilliant expose that has brought to center stage of our national attention, the true, and secret, heartbreak of our culture, both at universities and in society at large: we have failed our young men and women to the point that young women are, indeed, being raped on college campuses, and some young men do not even understand the concept of consent. President Sullivan has indicated in an address to students that there are some “predators” at some fraternity parties, and that these predators intentionally encourage, and even facilitate drinking to excess in order to take advantage of young women sexually. Please, as a responsible journalist, do not turn these very serious discussions into a farce.
Jackie, we stand in solidarity with you.
Fraternity brothers and men and women on campus who are working to stop assault on the Grounds, we stand in solidarity with you as well.
University administrators who are seeking to address this problem and radically change the manner in which sexual assault cases are handled, we stand in solidarity with you.
By “we’, I mean myself and many others with whom I have spoken who are simply bewildered and heartbroken that we are no further along now, in some ways, than we were in 1975.
For the sake of our future, let us please have a civil and respectful conversation.
12/2/2024 11:42 am
Um,
You should try reading all the comments in the thread, and reading them perhaps a little more slowly…for comprehension. (There, that should cover your first two paragraphs)
As for that third paragraph - no one is saying any of that, so please give that strawman a rest. Or is this just a copy+paste thing that you do? On to the fourth paragraph.
No one is saying that the fact that the woman didn’t go to the police is evidence of anything. She wasn’t too traumatized or afraid of reaction on campus to go to a Dean, so you should probably add that context into your story. Out of curiosity, how many spray painted jokes on basement walls of Frats have you personally seen?
You’re not looking at “gut responses” in this article or thread. The fact that you characterize rational and legitimate questions about her story as emotional reactions and that doing so about one woman’s story is somehow vilifying all women, reveals more about your personal tendency to project or your ability to read than it does any sort of reasoned response.
12/2/2024 11:45 am
UM,
A back of the envelope says that around 300 poor whites and 900 blacks were lynched in the South back in the day because of rape claims by pampered white Southern women perched on their pedestals of privilege. That’s 1200 men killed because of rape claims. How many of these do you suppose were false claims. How many times did a black man ignore a Southern white woman’s advances and in revenge she claimed rape? How many times did Southern white woman seduce a poor white or black man only to claim rape once caught by their white husbands, fathers, or brothers? How many times just out of pure spite did a privileged white Southern woman pronounce a death penalty on a poor white or black man just because she could? We just don’t know but surely we are talking at a minimum of 10% and probably much more.
Given Southern privileged white women’s horrific history of false rape charges that directly helped perpetuate the American shame of lynching, it is totally unacceptable in this day and age for once again a privileged Southern white women to expect her claims rape, now from her protected pedestal erected by Rape-Crisis Feminism, to not be investigated.
Jackie needs to climb down from her pedestal and start naming names and giving clear facts.
12/2/2024 11:54 am
Um, everyone is skeptical because this was a gang rape by university students in America committed in 2012. Then she did not report it, but found out there are another 2 victims of gang rape like her, but all of them decided not to report to the police.
What’s the point of all these sexual assault campaign and feminism if these modern, independent women would not report a gang rape by 7 men to the police because they care more about their reputation and being stigmatized? No reputation and friends are more important than reporting your rape. We should empower women by encouraging them to report it to the police immediately instead of only reporting it to a national magazine years after the fact. Always go to a police station first before the university. Universities should never handle rape cases, in fact the policy should be any rape cases received would be immediately forwarded to the police and will be handled by them.
A concerned alumna, there is no such thing as a rape culture in universities. Even Liz Seccuro said she wasn’t discouraged from reporting it to the police but she was too confused at that time to do so. And her case only involved 3 rapists. Suddenly after 20 years with the decrease of rape crimes a university have 7 psychopath together in a fraternity planning for a gang rape. Sorry I only believe Jackie when she reported it to the police, but until that I am skeptical about it.
12/2/2024 11:57 am
A concerned Alumna, could you clarify this statement
Why do you say you believe Jackie’s story and then follow that with a statement saying Jackie has distanced herself from the journalist?
12/2/2024 12:17 pm
Here’s Jackie’s letter to the college newspaper praising Dean Nicole Eramo a few days after the Rolling Stone article making her look bad came out:
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/11/letter-advocating-for-dean-eramo
12/2/2024 12:23 pm
Hannah Graham’s murder is a horrifying and real crime. This is a farce that disrespects her memory.
12/2/2024 12:52 pm
“…One flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye.””
Watch out for people who have more interesting lives than everyone else.
12/2/2024 1:53 pm
gmmay70: Your condescending tone has some unexpected advantages: it conveys both your intellectual rigor and lack of critical faculty.
I was responding to the comments that explicitly try to undermine the validity of the jezebel post via attacking the attractiveness of its author, that characterize this incident as part of a larger social trend toward female perniciousness, and which are generally spurious and demeaning.
Perhaps it is you that need to reevaluate your reading comprehension: I agreed that there should be more investigation into this case.
of note: the “rational” questions about the case all attack the unnamed men which is standard journalistic practice when the article borders on libel (e.g. someone who has not been formally charged for a crime).
I have witnessed how the campus culture treats rape victims, and yes, I have seen a frat basement with a name of a rape victim scrawled on the wall.
My larger, more nuanced, point that you have missed is that a demeaning women is a common thread among the commentators on this blog, something which is neither helpful nor productive.
Sweet Virginia: most of the southern lynchings were perpetuated by men who rationalized that they were revenging rape. The false rape claims were a societal myth perpetuated by white men.
Even if this were not the case, which it is and has been well documented in African American studies literature, using a horrific social trend in the deep south to attack an article about the culture of rape at a specific university is baffling.This speaks back to my larger point about attacking women and their judgement.
Girl: The fact that a woman felt ostracized and too terrified to go to the policy is not feminism’s fault: that is like saying that because your car broke down, the physics of a car engine don’t work. Failure in the system still happens and PTSD is not something to treat trivially.
I agree that the police should handle these matters, but it is hard to pressure universities to accept it given that that would mean many wealth donors’ children will have police records (as well as bad media for the university, which affects not only enrollment but also federal funding).
12/2/2024 1:54 pm
“For the sake of our future, let us please have a civil and respectful conversation.”
“Conversation”. You mean receiving lectures from authorities. Attempting to have an actual dialogue with leftist apparatchiks can result in one being denounced and cashiered, as recently happened to the president of Lincoln University when he foolishly revealed his thoughts on aspects of campus rape.
You do realize that some of the posters here could lose their jobs merely for questioning the veracity of gang-rape claims proffered by a music fanzine? That is the threat that feminist tattletales wield in an attempt to shut down actual discussions that they do not approve of.
12/2/2024 2:28 pm
MD,
I think something happened to Jackie-something horrific-and I truly hope we can get beyond this left/right; feminist/not feminist; progressive/conservative nonsense, and help her.
I also think that Erdely has her own opinions about what happened and that she does not approve of the way in which Dean Eramo handled the situation. I am not sure that I do, either, yet I do not condemn Eramo because she seems to be doing the best she can within a broken system.
In other words, in light of the letter Jackie wrote and that was published in The Cavalier Daily, she seems to not agree with Erdely’s assessment of Dean Eramo. That does not mean that she repudiates the account itself.
Let’s not traumatize Jackie again. (I am not saying you are, MD, just making an observation) She has truly suffered enough, don’t you think?
12/2/2024 2:41 pm
Mr. Bradley - Thank you for asking all the questions that I have had about the Rolling Stone article from the moment I read it.
One thing to note, the fraternity where the alleged rape occurred is located 2 blocks away from UVa Hospital. “Jackie” could have walked to the ER in less than 5 minutes on her own. And she would have known where the hospital was from her 1st year orientation just a couple of weeks prior. She was allegedly punched in the face, raped by 6 men, and sodomized with a beer bottle by a 7th, all on a bed of shattered glass. Wouldn’t the beer bottle alone leave her with severe contusions, and possibly permanent internal injuries? The cuts from the glass? Her eye? It strains credulity that she would not have immediately sought medical attention with injuries this horrific, when it was available to her a short two block walk away.
Also, I would like to hear on the record from the 3 friends who saw Jackie immediately after the incident, yet were more concerned about UVa’s reputation. Huh? As a former 1st year student, I can’t imagine anyone placing the school’s reputation above helping a friend who had just been so horribly victimized. Really? And helping her to the ER would have impacted the friends’ social lives exactly zero. Fraternity parties don’t require invitations or ask your name on the way in, and no one would have known their faces anyway, as they were 1st years, so that explanation is a nonstarter. And the greeks I knew would never have penalized someone for coming forward about such a crime and doing the right thing - come on.
The crime alleged doesn’t match the actions people took, and the reasons given don’t ring true to me after my 6 years of attending UVa while female. Ms. Erdely is requiring a suspension of my disbelief, and since this is non-fiction (supposedly), I must ask for more corroborating evidence than is currently provided by the original Rolling Stone article, which reads like a hit piece.
Thank you for your pursuit of journalistic integrity. I think your Nov. 24th blog post may be getting closer to the truth. If this happened, the perpetrators need to be brought to justice through the existing legal system. If this didn’t happen, Ms. Erdely’s article needs to be debunked.
12/2/2024 2:44 pm
There is probably a good rebuttal to your initial post which could explain some of the journalistic problems with Erdely’s piece or issues with Jackie’s story, but Jezebel is not the place for that. Thoughtful commentary from the Left will simply not be found there-it is a site for children, or more accurately adults with the minds of children.
I agree with your skepticism about the notion of a planned gang rape where the rapists knew the victim could identify at least one of them, as well as knowing their frat, and have witnesses downstairs, and doing this in the dark over shards of glass. Possible, but very difficult to believe. Giving Jackie the benefit of the doubt, it is possible that over the years she left some things out of the story-maybe she was too drunk to resist and was raped, and the rapists believed (wrongly) that it wasn’t rape, and there was no glass on the ground or signs of violence-which might also explain why her friends didn’t think going to the police would help (how to prove she was raped and not just had sex at a party?). Perhaps further work by Erdely might draw this out, or Jackie may want to explain and correct the record.
But the childish bleatings at Jezebel amounted simply to “how dare you question this uncorroborated story!” and added nothing intelligent to the conversation.
12/2/2024 2:56 pm
No fraternity ever or anywhere has owned a glass topped table.
That is “tell” number one of many. A second is that no fraternity ever or anywhere has had rape as a pledge requirement, something that is implied in the account. The number of women who would be raped under that program would be jaw dropping. The silence astonishes. It worries.
No rapist, not to mention gang of rapists, would subject their knees to three hours of shards of glass.
As is often the case with lies, they are revealed by the unnecessary level of detail liars use to tell them, the added piece of “authenticity” undermines. It does in this case.
12/2/2024 3:02 pm
Alum,
What do you observe in my comments? Please don’t be coy.
12/2/2024 3:03 pm
that last anon comment at 3:02 was made by me, MD
12/2/2024 3:05 pm
UM,
Wow, you went there and tried to “white” wash wealthy white female guilt. I have a Masters in African American & Diaspora Studies (with honors) and I can assure you there was, with rare exceptions, no such thing as an innocent white woman. I don’t want to clutter up this interesting thread but I would suggest you look up the Founding Mother of Rape-Crisis Feminism, Rebecca Latimer Felton.
And for the tl;dr crowd, here is the money quote from Wiki:
“Felton also advocated more lynchings of black men, saying that such was “elysian” compared to the rape of white women. On at least one occasion, she stated that white Southerners should “lynch a thousand [black men] a week if it becomes necessary” to “protect woman’s dearest possession.”
You are smart enough to what [black men] means don’t you? If not, here’s a little hint: it’s a word that starts with an “N”.
So don’t ever try to insult our intelligence by trying to claim that the vast majority of privileged Southern white women were anything but “all in” on the lynching of black and poor white men.
12/2/2024 3:21 pm
This matter is long past any mere opinion, or interpretation; it is in the hands of local law enforcement.
It seems possible that some or all of these extraordinary allegations are lies, and this is the question the Charlottesville police are urgently attempting to determine.
Someone in Charlottesville needs to go down to the police station and record an interview with the Charlottesville police.
Ask: what progress has been made in investigating the extraordinary charges of violent gang-rape in Rubin Erderly’s Rolling Stone article?
If there are, as Rubin Erderly claimed, no fewer than *seven* sociopathic rapists walking around free, concerned parents everywhere need to know what is being done about it!
Contact the Charlottesville Police Dept. at (434) 970-3280 and demand to know the status of the investigation of this alleged, horrific gang rape.
That’s all that matters! what are the police doing?
12/2/2024 3:54 pm
Mr. Bradley, please keep up the good work. You raise excellent points. The sourcing and fact-checking on this RS story are painfully thin.
Jezebel, like most of the Gawker Media sites, is full of emotionally manipulative, illogical click bait that actively makes the world a little bit worse place. You should wear their scorn as a badge of honor, but resist the urge to engage with them. Remember this famous quote from George Bernard Shaw: “Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” You are approaching this RS article with logical reasoning and healthy skepticism, while typical Jezebel writers won’t rise above ideology and name-calling.
If you do decide to pursue additional reporting of the details of this story in some way, I will also second At Long Last’s offer of financial support to fund such reporting.
Chris W - regarding the decision by Rubin Erdely and Rolling Stone not to publish the names of Drew or the other attacker who Jackie reportedly recognized, your defense rings hollow. Clearly the author and Rolling Stone would be risking a lawsuit by publishing the names, which seems to the rationale that you imply. What does that tell us, however, about how much credibility they assign to Jackie’s allegations? The article appears to walk the fine line of providing the bare minimum level of factual detail needed to make the story at least somewhat credible - the name of the university and the fraternity - while keeping the story vague enough that it’s possible that no alleged perpetrator will be motivated to sue. Where I could see that breaking down is if some other website figures out who Drew is and publishes his name. One would assume that the pool of junior Phi Psi lifeguards in 2012 is very small, and maybe only 1 person. (An anonymous commenter here claims no Phi Psi’s were lifeguards that fall.) Whatever the case, a semi-determined reporter ought to be figure out the answer(s) to that question. A police or university investigator could figure out the answer(s) to that question in no more than a few hours.
12/2/2024 3:55 pm
Um,
You’re projecting again. Nothing in your hectoring post resembled a rational argument. Rape is awful. You don’t say? You worked as a counselor at an Ivy. What difference does that make here?
Critical faculties, dear, mean that you are able to apply them to the subject at hand and stay focused, not snottily lecture everyone with irrelevant personal details or on things with which they are already familiar. If you don’t like the condescending tone, perhaps you should lose it yourself.
No one here has to undermine the validity of Jezebel since Jezebel is more than capable of doing the job itself. “Jezebel” is just a cognitive shortcut at this point for exactly what was pointed out above. That you took two paragraphs to address what amounts to side commentary about an unserious website populated and taken seriously by unserious people is…well, comical.
I didn’t miss your point about calling for more investigation. I addressed the points you brought up which were irrelevant or illogical. I even took the time to even map it out for you.
The points still apparently stand.
12/2/2024 4:10 pm
MD,
I do not observe anything in your comments. I simply answered you because you asked a legitimate question. When I said, “let’s ” not further traumatize Jackie, I meant all of us-everyone commenting here.
I thought your question was a good one.
12/2/2024 4:20 pm
@Mike Murphy - well said. (glass table in a fraternity, er what?)
@ Evan - PapayaSF’s statement that fraternity rush wouldn’t have started in September is correct as far as 1st years go. Upper class rush would have been happening, however.. Please see the UVa IFC/ISC brochure linked below that lists the important dates for Fall 2014/Spring 2015. Fall rush is available for 2nd 3rd and 4th years in September. Fall 2014 Bid Day for upper classmen was Sept 27th.
http://www.virginia.edu/fsl/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-2014-2015-FSL-Brochure.pdf
Bottom line - a rush event could have been happening in September, 2012 based on this. I hope a thorough, sober (pun intended!) investigation will occur. As with most things of this type, I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.
12/2/2024 4:23 pm
Anna Merlan is completely unhinged. This is her response to Reason’t Robby Souve in the comments section of her original article. Do people who graduated from CJR normally respond as she does. I wonder what Conor Friedersdorf and Jay Rosen think of this.
—
“Hi Robby! Thanks for stopping by! One small correction: I don’t think you’ve ever “reported” a goddamn thing in your life. (And because I know you’re going to do this, either here or in my Twitter mentions, which you and your friends are currently stink-clouding up with your Feelings, I have a master’s degree in journalism from Columbia and I write investigative stories. Have done for years, both at Jezebel and before I got here. Thanks for asking!)
Instead, I think, as I made clear above, that you’re piggy-backing on the work of other people who are calling Erdely’s story into question without a single shred of evidence. You don’t get brownie points for saying *IF* the story is true *THEN* UVA should have called the cops. That’s what any decent human being would suggest.
But by all means, do some journalism! Follow up on those leads! Let’s see it! Can’t wait! “
12/2/2024 4:24 pm
@Mike Murphy - well said. ( glass table in a fraternity - er what?)
@Evan - PapayaSF’s comment about rush is correct for First years. For Upperclassmen, rush could have been occurring. Fall 2014 bids for upperclassmen were issued on Sept 27th. Please see IFC brochure with important dates for 2014/2015 linked below. Based on this, it is possible that a rush event was occurring in Sept 2012 for upperclassmen.
http://www.virginia.edu/fsl/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-2014-2015-FSL-Brochure.pdf
12/2/2024 4:29 pm
@Evan - PapayaSF’s comment about rush is correct for First years. For Upperclassmen, rush could have been occurring. Fall 2014 bids for upperclassmen were issued on Sept 27th. Please see IFC brochure with important dates for 2014/2015 linked below. Based on this, it is possible that a rush event was occurring in Sept 2012 for upperclassmen.
http://www.virginia.edu/fsl/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-2014-2015-FSL-Brochure.pdf
12/2/2024 4:36 pm
@Evan - PapayaSF’s comment about rush is correct for First years. For Upperclassmen, rush could have been occurring. Fall 2014 bids for upperclassmen were issued on Sept 27th. Please see IFC brochure with important dates for 2014/2015 linked below. Based on this, it is possible that a rush event was occurring in Sept 2012 for upperclassmen. Based on the fact that Jackie said she was at a formal mixer, I will go out on a limb and say it was upper class bid night.
ok, after multiple attempts, comment with link won’t load. google UVa fraternity rush 2014 and you’ll find the pdf of the IFC brochure that lists the dates.
12/2/2024 5:00 pm
Thank you, Mr. Bradley for holding the pitchfork and torch wielding crowd at bay while the adults assess this story. Jezebel has all the journalistic clout of the Trader Joe’s newsletter and appears fairly sensitive to criticism — even the mildest kind — in service to an ideology that may or may not involve the truth. This smacks of Tawana Brawley, as you point out. Personally, I’ll wait for the verifiable facts before deciding the issue. Wonder if an ideologue can do the same?
12/2/2024 5:09 pm
Women have long used false rape allegations to bring down men. See the Emmitt Till case for example.
12/2/2024 5:10 pm
@ Dave
“The article appears to walk the fine line of providing the bare minimum level of factual detail needed to make the story at least somewhat credible – the name of the university and the fraternity – while keeping the story vague enough that it’s possible that no alleged perpetrator will be motivated to sue. Where I could see that breaking down is if some other website figures out who Drew is and publishes his name.”
Would the Phi Psi fraternity or even U.Va., have standing to sue?
12/2/2024 5:12 pm
“passed muster,” not “passed the mustard”
12/2/2024 5:14 pm
Female UVA Grad ’86,
Phi Psi does not participate in fall rush, in any form.
- CS
12/2/2024 5:37 pm
Pass the mustard, and the ketchup.
12/2/2024 5:40 pm
Current Student -
thanks for the clarification. The brochure is put out by the fraternity council. Not surprised to hear different houses have their own schedules.
On another note, were the 3 friends completely misquoted?
This was posted at JustOneMinute under the headline No Story for Old Men, a compendium of various news accounts all coming out to question Erdely’s account - I am reposting a portion, supposedly from Claire Kaplan, Faculty member and Director of Gender Violence Studies at UVa’s facebook page,
“A last but important bit of evidence calling into question the accuracy of the reporting on the three friends was dropped into a NY Times comment board several days ago:
Barbara Nordin Charlottesville, VA 8 days ago
This is what Claire Kaplin [Kaplan - TM], a faculty member at the Women’s Center whose title is Program Director of Gender Violence and Social Change, had to say on a Facebook thread:
I’ve learned from some of the students involved or interviewed that the
reporter actually made some of that up. The scene about whether or not
to go to the hospital never happened, and that when they wanted to take
her to the police, she didn’t want to go. That jibes with what I heard
from administrators.
Then, in a second post, responding to another person in the thread, she wrote:
Cora
what I understand is that she [Jackie, the alleged victim] had much more support than the reporter stated. That some of the comments by friends were not said at all (the whole conversation telling her not to report). Both survivors were devastated when she called them to clear quotes. They learned that their “off the record” comments were not off the record. Also she really got the students riled up when she characterized them as passive, conservative, and not “radical” enough. You and I both recall some pretty creative protests from years past.
In other words, someone who should be at the forefront of advocating for victims of sexual violence is responding to the article, at least in part (and when she assumed, most likely, that others on the thread would agree with her), by (1) calling the alleged victim a liar, and (2) trashing the reporter’s ethics.
Ms. Kaplan’s UVA bio is here:
Claire Kaplan, Director of the Gender Violence and Social Change program, has been a feminist social justice activist for longer than she’d like to admit.”
12/2/2024 6:37 pm
Female UVA Grad ’86,
“On another note, were the 3 friends completely misquoted?”
The conversation that appears in the article is based on Jackie’s account. They’ve disputed her version of events.
- CS
12/2/2024 6:43 pm
In my personal experience I have found that people, when trying to be persuasive or gain allies will often leave out key details that would undermine their objectives and embellish or emphasize details that serve their purpose.
Since the subject of this incident is about whether or not there was a gangrape, and the likelyhood of the story being a false accusation, it’s relevent to observe whether or not false accusations are common or anomolies.
To call the prevalence of false accusations a “trope” and then dismiss the likelyhood of this being the case is a logical fallacy.
(Btw thanks a lot anita sarkissian for bandying the word “trope” around. now every feminist uses it in the word salads they like to make as if the words will make up for the lack of logic in their arguements)
Next we will hear that women don’t claim to be pregnant when they are not because that is also a “trope”.
They also dont blame their period when they are acting irrational and they don’t ever gossip about each other.
False accusations are a common occurrance and observing this fact doesn’t mean I am condoning rape.
It means I am of the opinion that this case is a false accusation.
Do you people not realize all that needs to be done for a man to be arrested is for an accusation to be made? There doesn’t have to ne a shred of evidence.
12/2/2024 6:56 pm
CS - I agree. Kaplan’s facebook post states the reporter “made up” some of the students’ statements, and indeed they do disagree with Jackie.
And suddenly, everyone’s coming out of the woodwork. Mr. Bradley, you get all the credit for getting this ball rolling. Thank you again -
Washington Post - Rolling Stone whiffs on reporting of alleged rape
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2014/12/02/rolling-stone-whiffs-in-reporting-on-alleged-rape/
12/2/2024 7:44 pm
“The three friends launched into a heated discussion about the social price of reporting Jackie’s rape, while Jackie stood beside them, mute in her bloody dress, wishing only to go back to her dorm room and fall into a deep, forgetful sleep. Detached, Jackie listened as Cindy prevailed over the group: “She’s gonna be the girl who cried ‘rape,’ and we’ll never be allowed into any frat party again.”
Deep, forgetful sleep. Detached, Jackie listened. Anyone else thinking heaving alabaster bosoms here?
12/2/2024 9:20 pm
A Concerned Alumna,
In your words:
“Universities across the nation have a serious problem with campus rape, and have for decades.”
“Women are being raped on campus. There is no doubt about that.”
“The RS article is a brilliant expose that has brought to center stage of our national attention, the true, and secret, heartbreak of our culture”
“There are some “predators” at some fraternity parties, and that these predators intentionally encourage, and even facilitate drinking to excess in order to take advantage of young women sexually.”
STOP IT. This article alleges that nine-NINE-violent rapists have been allowed free reign on campus for two years. It’s a specific accusation on a specific date at a specific place facilitated by a specific organization. It’s not a social critique. It’s the most brutal account of peace-time rape I’ve ever read. It’s hardly appropriate to be formulating a broad social critique while the women of UVA are living among nine-NINE-violent rapists, most of whom will be repeat offenders.
Would you be comfortable justifying a sweeping indictment of a rise in child molestations in your town if the lede of the story was “on such and such a date, my friend said her child was molested at A Concerned Alumna’s Daycare Center”? If not, STOP IT. Focus on the issue at hand. Putting these depraved men behind bars.
12/2/2024 10:33 pm
A Concerned Alumna wrote:
“Universities across the nation have a serious problem with campus rape, and have for decades.”
“Women are being raped on campus. There is no doubt about that.”
“The RS article is a brilliant expose that has brought to center stage of our national attention, the true, and secret, heartbreak of our culture”
In 2011, Chad Hermann of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette looked closely at the numbers of sexual assaults on college campuses. He found the 1 in 4 figure did not pan out. The figure he came up with was 1 in 1877.
The story is worth reading, but here is an example of how he ran the numbers:
“At the University of Pittsburgh, there are roughly 14,800 female students. If their chances of being sexually assaulted are 1-in-4, there should be about 3,700 sexual assaults each year. In 2009, the most recent year for which full statistics are available, Pitt students reported 4.
http://communityvoices.post-gazette.com/opinion/the-radical-middle/27667-one-in-one-thousand-eight-hundred-seventy-seven
12/2/2024 11:31 pm
Don’t give Jezebel the dignity of hits. Put the page through archive.today
12/3/2024 2:48 am
Um, you are implying universities are discouraged victims for reporting it to the police. That is wrong. Even in Jackie’s case the dean explicitly said that she have the option to report it to the police. She doesn’t do it. So there is no one left to blame but Jackie herself for not reporting it to the police. Which is understandable for rape victims to do so but I find it’s unbelievable that a victim of a gang rape would not report it. It’s gang rape; a vicious crime that usually caused the victim to end up hospitalized or dead like the victim in India. It’s kind of hard to believe a survivor of that kind of attack won’t report it to the police.
A Concerned Alumna, it is entirely ridiculous that we are re-traumatizing Jackie again because we don’t believe her story. Instead of only telling her story to the police and juries and be granted anonymity, she herself exposed her story to a national magazine that can be read of thousands of people around the world. Of course her story would be dissected and discussed whether her story is true especially when she never reported it to the police. What did she expect, for us to immediately believe it any question? You know who believes rape victims and will investigate the claims thoroughly? The police.
12/3/2024 4:21 am
You’re pissing into the wind trying to argue with a Jezebel muckraker. They have exactly two directives: generate hits, and push radical feminism. Opening up a rational discussion about the case does not enter into it. You’re trying to debate a deaf-mute who communicates with a feminist buzzword soundboard.
12/3/2024 7:43 am
Kyle Robb,
You have attributed to me a statement that is actually a quote from someone else. I just referenced the quote. (We’ll get to that in a moment) Also, you have quoted me in a manner that suits your argument. That is to be expected in a blog forum. I understand that you are reacting emotionally, as we all are, to some degree, so let’s look at the quote and talk about it. ( So that I do not quote out of context myself, you can pull the entire address up either via video or in written form. It is titled as follows: “President Teresa A. Sullivan’s Address to Students”. )
President Sullivan:
“Third, what is the role of alcohol? ….Alcohol does not cause rape, but alcohol is often the tool of the predator…Women and men should know what they are drinking and who is serving it to them. Young women should also understand that their lesser body weight and not eating with their drinks raise the probability that a smaller amount of alcohol will have a bigger effect on them. The predators certainly know this. Serving sweet-tasting but high proof punches to women, while the guys sip a few beers, is often described as the prelude for taking advantage of the woman.”
Sullivan then goes on to talk about date rape drugs and to strongly caution against painting with a broad brush and vilifying fraternities. It is a very balanced, thoughtful address that is truly, in my view, the correct approach; we have a problem. Let’s identify it, and, more importantly, let’s fix it.
Interestingly enough, President Sullivan has not even remotely indicated that Jackie’s account of events is a hoax.
Only time will tell.
12/3/2024 11:08 am
“Classic. Fighting over this person’s credibility instead of listing to the real story: there is WAAAYY too much tolerance of rape at these big frat/sport schools. Just read the words of that “Rugby Road” fight song and tell me UVA is a place that takes rape seriously.”
Juliette, isn’t it problematic to this narrative that women flock to Rugby Road? I mean, if it were the Fallujah of rape, wouldn’t they specifically avoid it? What I find interesting about your comments is you are doing exactly what Fox News ideologues do - jumping from empirical claims to values, that is, that empirical beliefs are not statements of fact but expressions of values. Can it not be that one is skeptical of the story (in this case my skepticism is of the reporter) - I think the whole thing was fabricated by the reporter to give zing to otherwise sound story about the lame collusion between feminist PC nonsense about rape culture and the ass-covering, cheerleading of college administrators that lead to procedural problems that let real rapists hide behind groundless feminist cant. There things can be true at the same time 1)This story was fabricated by the reporter 2)far too many cases of rape go unpunished and 3)far too many men are accused of rape in situations of “honest conflicting stories”. I know that believing all three at once doesn’t lend itself well to ideological in-group signaling, but nothing stops all 3 from being the case.
PS: Were you at UVA in the 90s? If so, I bet we know each other. 😉
12/3/2024 11:20 am
We are to the point where empirical beliefs (that is, facts) are a stand-in for values. Every conservative immediately lapped up the lame ACORN advising prostitutes story and every liberal immediately lapped up the Duke Lacrosse players guilt. It is very rare for people to have values beliefs first, but then give equal weight to evidence about empirical facts on any story relevant to those beliefs. The same liberals who are angry at any skepticism at the UVA rape story will be eagle-eyed in picking apart details of a factual story that attacks their values and the same conservatives whose bias is, possibly rightly (this time) driving skepticism of the UVA story will swallow wholesale without skepticism the next fact-based story that caters to their values. Follow the sacredness and you can find out who will believe what.
12/3/2024 2:00 pm
It’s obvious to me that Erdely doesn’t name the to known alleged rapists, because to do so in such a flimsy accusation in a case in which nobody seemed in any big hurry to file criminal charges about what is allegedly a heinous crime, would open up Erdely and Rolling Stone to a near open-and-shut libel suit, as the men, having never been previously accused of and charged with rape can rather reasonably claim that it is libelous to label them rapists.
To name them would essentially force the victim to go whole hog and file charges against them.
And she wasn’t going to do that. Because it didn’t happen.
12/3/2024 4:13 pm
Liberal or conservative - it doesn’t matter. Either side will readily believe fabulous stories that appeal to their prejudices and will go over with a fine tooth comb any story that doesn’t. Facts are just things to argue for a pre-existing bias with.
12/3/2024 4:23 pm
Exactly, Cloudbuster. To name actual people, like the Duke lacrosse near-martyrs, would allow them to defend themselves. As things are the fraternities are being harassed by the school and have no recourse.
12/3/2024 6:56 pm
The ironic thing is that the Columbia Journalism Review — the Bi-monthly publication of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism (you know, the school where this Anna Merlan graduated from) — has now published an article entitled “Rolling Stone’s omission in UVA article proves problematic”
I wonder if Ms. Merlan is woman enough to apologize to Richard Bradley for her inflammatory and inaccurate article.
12/3/2024 8:52 pm
How funny that you, an actual journalist, had to respond to a Jezebel hack, who is oh so proud of her graduate degree which landed her a job at…Jezebel. I’m embarrassed for her. What a buffoon.
12/4/2024 7:53 am
“I expected to get raked over the coals when I wrote the post”
Correction: you expected to get hauled over the coals. The coals in this metaphor are hot and when you’re hauled over them it hurts.
To rake over someone’s coals (note the word order) is to dredge up unpleasant memories or issues from the past. The coals in this metaphor are cold, the burned out remains.
12/5/2024 8:27 am
[…] of false rape accusations. Saying that a rape accusation may be false does not make one an “idiot” or mean the person questioning does not care about rape. It means the person questioning cares […]
12/5/2024 2:22 pm
Not lookin’ good, kids.
“Rolling Stone apologizes over account of UVA gang rape”
“In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in (the woman’s) account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced,” Rolling Stone said.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/05/us/rolling-stone-uva-apology/
12/5/2024 3:04 pm
Rolling Stone apologizes. Walk-back to follow?
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205
12/6/2024 8:41 am
Thank you for the blog as it provides excellent framework/reminder for when I read future sensational stories. Important to challenge my preconceived biases and emotions of outrage with facts and methods they are gathered.
12/10/2024 8:02 am
[…] of false rape accusations. Saying that a rape accusation may be false does not make one an “idiot” or mean the person questioning does not care about rape. It means the person questioning cares […]
3/24/2015 9:01 am
it literatelly blew my beliefs
4/6/2024 6:29 am
So, this Anna Merlan character really looks like a dumbfuck now, eh?
4/6/2024 2:07 pm
Can’t wait to read Anna’s apology.
4/8/2024 3:04 pm
You called it. Good work.
Anna Merlan, as a journalist, needs to retract her article.
pfft.