My interview with the Yale economist is in the April/May issue of Worth, but if you’re not a reader, here it is.

The most relevant part for this audience might be when he and I spoke about Wall Street and academia, and what happens when the twain meet. After discussing how economists were portrayed in the film Inside Job, our conversation went like this:

RB: Isn’t there a danger, though, of academics being corrupted? Ruth Simmons, the president of Brown, recently found herself in a controversy over being paid millions for serving on the corporate board of Goldman Sachs, even though she had no financial expertise whatsoever.

RS: But maybe that’s not a bad thing, to have the president of Brown on the Goldman Sachs board, if she was a moral influence on them.

RB: It’s also possible that she just wanted Goldman Sachs’ money for herself and for Brown.

RS: People are selfish, often, and they are cliquish—these are human traits. They form alliances and exclude others. The history of this country is to try to create opportunity so that people can break into these cliques.

You said that the president of Brown serving on the Goldman Sachs board creates opportunities for her to behave selfishly, but it also creates opportunities for her to behave altruistically. Isn’t Goldman to b e congratulated for putting the president of Brown on the board? What’s the cynical view?

RB: The cynical view is that they wanted a black woman, of whom there aren’t a lot at Goldman Sachs….

RS: So that’s even better—they put a black academic on their board.

RB: …and if she lacked expertise, so much the better.

The conversation continues from there. A very thoughtful and intelligent man, Robert Shiller. His new book is called Finance and the Good Society.