Aren't you endangering the security of the General with this post?
 

I think the Jerusalem Post already did that. Must be this one, in which case it's already over:

http://www.exed.hbs.edu/programs/amp/

$56,000 for 7 weeks!
 

hbs exec ed is worth every penny for all stakeholders......
 

56 large is chump change for these people.
 

The Kennedy School is swarming with executive training programs of every type, some "custom" programs specially designed for various groups, some as short as a few days, some longer: this has got to be a huge cash cow for the school.
 

The REAL obscenity is that tax dollars are being used to pay for it.
 

I don't understand the underlying argument of your objection. If people are willing to pay a given price for a Harvard course, who is to say whether they are paying too much or too little? Shouldn't those who pay be trusted to decide whether the value they get out of these courses is worth the price?

Universities have programs that have higher overhead costs than the average and other programs that have lower overheac costs than the average. It is not uncommon to cross-subsidize programs. It may be that some of the courses KSG offers students like the General do cover some of the indirect costs of the degree programs offered to budding politicians. What's wrong with that? It's not as if the Dean is putting this money in his pocket or something...
 

why is it an obscenity that Israeli tax dollars pay for the education of Generals to facilitate their transition to the private sector or to politics?

Generals have devoted a substantial part of their careers to public service, making substantially less income than they could have in other occupations. Because of the demands of the job they must be retired at a time when they have a potentially long career ahead of them. What's wrong with using a modest fraction of the resources of the society they have served to help them have useful second careers after public service?

Is your objection to Defense and those who work in that sector? Would the costs be more justified to you if those who had served had visible scars of their service? missing limbs perhaps?
 

Exec ed and extension are wonderful avenues to extend a Harvard education to people who cannot spend an extended period of time on campus. The only obscenity is that there is so little of this kind of work going on at Harvard. Shouldn't all Harvard faculty spend a substantial portion of their time educating the greater community in this way?
 

No they shouldn't. Those who do, like Cornel West, end up at Princeton.
 

8:07

sorry but you are dead wrong- the b school exec ed faculty is the best the school has to offer and perhaps the best available in the country

the ist yr mba's get the lesser qualified faculty- matter of quality of experience - student and faculty.

and yes, the b school prof's are worth it unlike perhaps fas

nuff said
 

ah, but hbs is a school with a clear sense of mission, unlike many schools at harvard. it's obvious that if you want to be the top school of education you need to bring in the top business leaders, and those can't come for more than a few weeks. harvard would be perhaps more relevant if more schools followed the b-school's example.
 

if ksg is indeed cross-subsidizing other programs with the revenues from some of this exec ed maybe these cross-subsidies should be made transparent. just to be sure the renevue these courses generate indeed support worthy causes like the education of budding politicians and does not end up in the pockets of the favorite colleagues of the dean.
 

Richard, would you be writting a similar expose say about a foundation --which also enjoys tax exempt status-- underwritting a lavish book party? perhaps funding first class ticket to celebrity guests? or are the standards you apply to Generals and to Harvard different than those you apply to the jet set of book parties?
 

aren't you bloggers glad to know you can blog freely? why don't you launch a campaign to support a fellow Harvard blogger in trouble in Malaysia?

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=519348
 

should the divinity school offer exec. courses too?
 

why not? and invite a few Generals to those courses on comparative religion, it might just help a little.
 

For the folks who are suggesting that I have some antipathy to the military, I don't know why you're putting words in my mouth; I don't. I'd have to have an antipathy to most of my ancestors, for one thing, which I don't.

I do wonder about the expenditure of public monies for this program.

I also get deeply offended at the idea that the general deserves this because he gave up so much going into public service. For one thing, it's not inherently the case that people who go into public service could have done so much better in the private sector; that's just what people who are cashing in on their public service like to say.

But more important, the suggestion contains the idea that public service is something one should be paid back for—preferably from the public teat.

It isn't. Public service is a choice one makes because one believes in a cause—a country, a crusade, the less fortunate—not because you think that one day you'll get to profit off it. You don't go into public service thinking there'll be some quid pro quo down the line. You enter public service because you think it's the right thing to do, and because public service has other rewards, some—gasp!—even more important than money.
 

So the term "crusade" is fair game again?
 

Don't get offended Richard. You have a very worthwhile and consistent crusade for transparency in University decision making which is good, for Harvard and other places. Nothing should be exempt from your efforts to have Universities with glass walls.
 

what's this nonsense about relevancy? and since when are universities supposed to be huge money making enterprises offering training to people who command huge budgets and want to buy their way into a little of Harvard?

Universities are about rigorous and quiet scholarship. They are not about money or making money. Students and faculty should be poor, or at least live modestly. And they should have little interest in contemporary affairs.

Harvard most authentic values have been corrupted by schools like the b school and the kennedy school. True Harvard values have always lived in the College and in FAS, and still do. Everything else is peripheral as it is ephemeral and should remain marginal to the core enterprise of the University.
 

Professors Thomas and Ryan, when are you when we need the voices of reason? Please bring some sanity to this debate on Harvard and its affairs with Generals.
 

Harvard gains much by having its faculty teach grown ups who know something about the world, rather than teach kids all the time. How many faculty can get good course evaluations teaching grown ups? Shouldn't all faculty have to do this kind of teaching as a way to help them to grow professionally?
 

Interesting/amusing that Richard's 10:35 a.m. post sat there all day, till 5:53 p.m. identified the course as HBS, at which point all the posts came tumbling out.

8:07 was my favorite. Not so good if you're a first year MBA student I guess, but you get what you pay for is not a bad mission for a Business School
 

PS To 9: 42, I and many FAS professors teach in the Harvard Extension School, and I have done so every term not on leave since the late 70's. I very much enjoy teaching mature students, high school kids, Harvard staff. These ones pay $900-$1600 per semester, and I am remunerated in due proportion -- which is a slightly different proposition from the topic of this post.

The courses in question are fine I guess, if the market supports them, but let's not confuse them with Extension School courses in terms of providing regular people with access to Harvard faculty.
 

Professor Thomas is a wonderful example. He has taught in extension over three decades and enjoys it. More Harvard faculty should do the same, teach ordinary folk, that and maybe ride the T and get out of Harvard square a little, would go a long way in bringing some balance to the place.

Incidentally, that was the problem with that infamous town car driving the equally infamous occupant of Elmwood. Symbolically it was too much of an affirmation of the distance between Harvard and its surroundings. That's why people loved to see Bok I drive his VW to work and that's why they loved to see Neil and Angelica walk around campus.

Harvard, open your doors to the people and embrace them with open arms when they come...
 

a time might come when the occupant of Elmwood walks to work, at least part of the year...
 

Thanks, 10:34, but to be honest, I also enjoy getting paid for it and as a humanities faculty person needed the extra income in my earlier years -- not a bad thing as I reflect on it.

In my earlier one I meant the 8:14 rather than the 8:07 post was my favorite.
 

reneging on CW Professor Thomas?
 

wait a minute... isn't the humanities center supposed to be precisely the venue to open the doors of Harvard to the world? why do Professors like Richard Thomas need the extension school to do that? Why doesn't FAS have the equivalent of executive education to reach out to broader constituencies? Are the humanities at Harvard, perhaps, too inward looking?
 

Perhaps too many of them are looking forward to receiving a Guggenheim, instead to look forward to share what they know with the wide world outside Harvard...
 

Jeez, 11:58, that's a little cryptic. Let me try and guess where you're at here.

I take it your "reneging on CW Professor Thomas?" has something to do with 8:07's saying of those who teach beyond their Harvard classes: "Those who do, like Cornel West, end up at Princeton."

I'll say I wish Prof. West had not been driven out of Harvard, and I think study of rap is as legit. as study of Dylan (which I do, ergo . . . ). And I preferred Bradley to Gore back then, for complex reasons having to do with a man named Richard Marius -- another story.

But I'm not reneging on anything. Prof. West never taught in the Extension School I think, and would not be likely to do so since he earns in one off-campus lecture what I earn for a semester Extension course -- market again, so no problems there. If CW means something else, just forget this.
 

12:01 and 12:02, Tweedle Dum & Tweedle Dee, as it were, time to hit the hay, I say.
 

(CW usually "Conventional Wisdom"? no idea about whether in this case . . --Not 11:58)
 

To anonymous 9:35 PM: Thanks for demonstrating that sarcasm isn't a lost art.
 

Oops, 1:50, I'm sure you're right. Never heard it called CW. Also known as urban legend, no? I teach intermediate and advanced Latin in Extension and yes, enjoy teaching the range of students in those courses -- as in my College and GSAS courses.
 

10:41 PM's prediction is intriguing...but nobody seems to be paying attention to it.
 

So Miles Gloriosus wants a Harvard experience and the Israeli government is willing to pay fifty-six grand for a two-month course. Richard rightly wonders about Harvard's non-profit status, but it's a bit worse than that. This sort of thing likens Harvard to a Rodeo Drive pet grooming salon.
 

wrong-the approach in the b-school at the ex ed level is as much peer to peer learning as it is from faculty - the case method

and by the way, the govt people often lend more to the learning and discussion because of broad and deep experience on many levels.

as for richard and his attitude that govt workers deserve to be paid less - well you get what you pay for. govt workers have responsibility for your health and welfare 24 hours a day - so is it your contention that it should go to a low skilled, lowly paid person or the lowest bidder in a contract? don't you want quality or is that only for the writers of the world- then we should require the media to enroll- perhaps they could learn the differnce btw journalism and editoralising.
 

So everyone pays $56K to learn peer to peer more than from faculty. Somebody is making a lot of money out of this scam.
 

versus what $40,000/yr at fas for what? lot said about the lack of quality there...besides it is usually paid for by the sponsoring company so the selection process is even harder for each candidate than mba admissions processes.

say, for example, you work for a large multinational company with 20,000 employees and they need to prepare qualified leaders for greater responsibility in the company- how easy is it to get selected from that employee pool and then get accepted by b school?

so if companies dont mind paying the fee why should you?
 

It is not a scam. The fee is not the issue nor is the tax status of the university.

What perhaps you might want to think about is the new MBA/MPP and MBA/MPA joint degrees with the Kennedy school and the joint MBA/MD degree with the medical school. Given the convergence in the marketplace and the compexities of the marketplace, private and public, for profit and non-profit and government markets, the school has developed a platform to educate and prepare leaders whose skills and business cross various markets and requires analytical rigor previously unheard of in any of the firms. market segments or sectors.

As an alum of the B-school I can honestly say it was well worth the time, investment and work. Yes, you learn as much from your peers as your do from faculty- remember when you go back into the "real word" are you going to have the faculty spoon feeding you the questions let alone the answers? No, you need to learn how to develop you own skills and talents and when to reach out for other experts.

The approach is collaborative and competitive and yes that is how you succeed. More importantly, my peers and the other alums I have come to know are some of the sharpest people I have met and I continue to find people in this group who are held in the highest regard in their fields based not on earnings but on character and integrity-makes you proud to be part of a group that walks its talk.
 

I have no doubt those are fine degree programs, and my impression of the B school is that it's quite serious about teaching. But the program in question is different, isn't it?
 

No it is not different. It is for the highest level officers in companies and government agencies. Threshold requirements for application are no less than 20 to 25 years of executive experience, revenues of $250mm. With global representation it enhances understanding of other cultures, business and business practices. That interaction is invaluable allowing insight and personal interaction in cultures and business settings otherwise off limits to most executives and countries.

Remember, running a business or a government isn't about managing content, it is about framing the context and how do you do that in a vacuum?

Richard, I am very surprised at you-you did no research on this and just cast aspersions-not becoming. There is an old saying in government circles..."he who throweth dirt looseth ground". Please be careful in the future about glib comments or unresearched remarks-you have lost credibility on this one.
 

8:33 a.m., he's lost no credibility at all, and your analysis does nothing to counter the inference, initiated and intensified in the Israeli press, not on this blog, that the Israeli tax-payer was paying for this guy to make a transition into a lucrative job.

You say:

"Threshold requirements for application are no less than 20 to 25 years of executive experience, revenues of $250mm."

So did the General have revenues of $250mm.?

Look, this program creates connections and makes it likely that individuals such as the General will become quite wealthy/more wealthy. Stuff like that happens, and that's how the Business School gets to have really nice gyms, etc. All of which is fine, but let's drop the clap-trap about "insight and personal interaction in cultures and business settings otherwise off limits to most executives and countries", OK? It's about how forking over $56,000 will make you rich or richer, which is fine, but let's not pretend it's about anything other than that.
 

Thank you, Richard. Much more of this nonsense.....

"Remember, running a business or a government isn't about managing content, it is about framing the context and how do you do that in a vacuum?"

...I couldn't take.
 

Are the b and k school under good management? does Harvard need a seminar to teach deans to be deans?
 

Harvard would indeed benefit from asking the b school to arrange for some of its deans to attend the same course. 56K is a lot less than the cost of severance packages to induce them to resign once the costs of their mismanagement becomes unbearable.

Not sure this group, from a less selective pool than Israeli General, would meet the admissions standards of the b school...
 

Ah, the difference btw the Cambridge side and the Boston side of Harvard...or a river runs through it.

Good luck to all you cantabridgians. It's manifest destiny-westward ho!
 

Or a giant sucking-sound to the south
 

training for the deans? how about a little good sense in appointing them in the first place? has anyone thought of establishing bechmarks of performance for them?
 

Conrad Harper was the last one to suggest bechmarks of performance for Harvard's leadership. And subsequently he resigned.