What’s Missing from This Paragraph in The New Yorker?
Posted on December 9th, 2014 in Uncategorized | 33 Comments »
“Last month, Rolling Stone ran an article about an alleged gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity house, based on interviews with a student identified only as “Jackie.” It now appears that key details of the story, reported by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, may not be true. Other journalists—notably, my friend Hanna Rosin and Allison Benedikt, at Slate, and Paul Farhi, Erik Wemple, and T. Rees Shapiro, at The Washington Post—raised doubts about the reporting late last month, but Rolling Stone dismissed them.” [emphasis added]
—Margaret Talbot, writing in the New Yorker
What’s missing? I’ll give you a hint: The one journalist who “raised doubts about the reporting” before all the journalists Talbot lists.
Listen, I’m not territorial, but…are you kidding me? It was not easy being the first person to question the Rolling Stone story. Being first meant taking the brunt of the hostility from people who didn’t want to hear anything that might undermine the article. It also meant going out on a reputational limb; I didn’t think I was wrong, but imagine if I had been. These things only look easy to write in retrospect.
Paul Farhi, who was the first person after me to raise any concerns, did so four days after my blog post. And even he buried his doubts pretty far down in a profile of Erdely.
(Correction: Hanna Rosin’s Slate Gabfest came three days later, on November 27.)
Meantime, if you go back and look at that original blog post, you can see that a) it has been proved correct on every point, and b) it has fundamentally driven the media narrative about Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s article.
So, yes, I guess it does matter to me when people don’t give credit where it’s due.
The New Yorker has a storied fact-checking department. Was someone asleep? Perhaps an omission does not count as an error, but… Oh, hell. When it misrepresents what happened, an omission counts as an error.
33 Responses
12/9/2024 2:31 pm
Rich…you’re just a blogger now. Obviously a story doesn’t exist until the mainstream media reports it. (Sarcasm clearly intended) I’ve seen several pieces that are doing the exact same thing now. Just like Rolling Stone only became aware of the problems in their story when it was reported in the Washington Post. Really pathetic when you think about it.
Just keep up your great work on this story and know that most people are really proud of you.
12/9/2024 2:31 pm
Richard: From what I can see the omission was political, institutional, personal, it looks as though those mentioned are either left of center and / or personally known to the author.
I don’t know your politics, but if you came out 11/24, I already know that Jonah Goldberg and Steve Sailer both came out first couple days of December. Those two at least are known on the right.
My guess is that Margaret Talbot has a typical “New Yorker” audience in mind, and therefore restricted herself to writers for high profile entities or those who share her politics.
Put it another way, I think she may have deliberately avoided individuals with no institutional profile or conservatives on purpose. However she deserves to be called on it.
12/9/2024 2:40 pm
Right. I was doing a lot of Googling the last week of November to figure out whether to risk linking to your post, looking for alternative viewpoints, and there wasn’t much else going on in terms of healthy skepticism anywhere on the Internet. Various individuals commented negatively on the adulatory articles about Erdely’s saga, and maybe a couple of other bloggers raised questions (Return of Kings?), but the pathway to the public almost certainly went from you on 11/24 through me finally linking on 11/29 to a variety of writers within a few degrees of separation on 12/1.
A reader had sent me an email about your post on 11/24/14. I made comments on 11/25 and 11/27, half expecting them to be shot down by other commenters. But there were no comments from anybody else, so on 11/29 I finally got up the courage to link to your post from my iSteve blog on the Unz Review. (I deal with controversial subjects so I make sure to be seldom wrong.) Comments immediately started to appear on your post, and the media floodgates opened on 12/1 as various names with a few degrees of separation weighed in. Here’s the timeline:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/how-skepticism-spread-about-the-rolling-stone-rape-story/
12/9/2024 3:10 pm
Richard:
Maybe they asked Anna Merlan if there were any non-idiots that had issues with the RS story.
12/9/2024 3:25 pm
When I read Talbot’s piece, I was immediately stuck by the omission. There is no commentating feature on the New Yorker site (afaik), so neither I nor anyone else could point this out.
The omission is especially glaring since I found your initial post and blog via Hanna Rosin’s article in Slate. Talbot had to know you were the first to raise doubts about the RS story. (She also omits another early doubter Robby Soave)
12/9/2024 3:29 pm
Yup, you’re right-Robby Soave should be there too.
12/9/2024 3:34 pm
If it’s any satisfaction, if one googles “Richard Bradley,” the first two hits are your latest Dec. 9 post, and your Nov. 24 post! Go team!
12/9/2024 3:48 pm
Who calls “First”?
Pleasureman over at MPCdot.com started a thread on Nov 20th calling the whole thing bullshit right off the bat.
But SteveMcMahon on RooshVForum called BS at about 3:00AM on the 20th.
12/9/2024 3:50 pm
It’s been quiet lately. Too quiet.
12/9/2024 4:26 pm
One mitigating thing and two possible defenses of Talbot:
1. She is not writing in the New Yorker, she’s just blogging FOR the New Yorker. The fact-checking is different and the snub less consequential.
2. All the WaPo and Slate people she mentioned also ignored your contribution — with the possible exception of one Rosin mention I haven’t been able to find. So Talbot could have done some diligence without learning about your contribution. The GabFest could have led, in her superficial read, straight into WaPo’s pursuit of the story.
3. It’s arguable that your original post wasn’t “reporting,” but was a commentary on what had already been published. Not until a few posts later did you start contacting Erdely to have any kind of firsthand sourcing. The WaPo people were definitely working a beat and finding sources, although the Slate take was closer to your approach. In any case, this doesn’t mean you don’t belong in the category of people of ‘journalists,’ but it might be an argument that your observations were driven by instinct rather than ‘reporting.’
Don’t sweat it. Being a good reader is, as any Chaucerian knows, more valuable than anything else. You nailed this one on internal clues, and good sense, alone.
12/9/2024 5:24 pm
SE—you are right. As I understand it, The New Yorker does not fact-check this online writing whatsoever.
Go figure.
I thought as well of your point about the reporting, but the criterion Talbot mentions in that sentence is journalists who “raised doubts about the reporting….”
…not journalists who did their own reporting.
Anyway, you are right. The omission is annoying, but not all that important.
12/9/2024 5:54 pm
deliberate rewriting of history. the MSM is like congress, the different factions pretend to fight but they are really in it together. as long as they control the dialogue and keep out the real subversive forces, they are happy.
12/9/2024 6:14 pm
They’re spoilt brats who don’t dare acknowledge anyone outside their insular little clique. They might find it threatening?
Don’t worry — it says a lot more about them than it does about you.
You’ve from the start been the only grown-up in the room. Class, confidence and experience will out.
12/9/2024 6:42 pm
A hero does the work while others take the credit.
12/9/2024 7:43 pm
Much deserved credit at this channel:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/3928588533001/rolling-stone-story-crumbles/?intcmp=related#sp=show-clips
12/9/2024 7:55 pm
For what it’s worth, I’ve actually never read anything by you before the RS fiasco. I learned about this site from reading an OpEd piece by Bret Stephens at the WSJ, where I read that “[t]he most intelligent dissection of the [Rolling Stone] article comes from a Nov. 24 blog post from Richard Bradley, the editor in chief of Worth magazine.”
In the days since then, I’ve visited this blog everyday — it has the most cogent thoughts on the RS story that I’ve seen to date.
12/9/2024 8:16 pm
re Slate’s Gabfest: I’m not sure that it really is an example of journalists raising doubts. It’s true that they asked Erdely whether she had contacted the accused, but they didn’t explicitly express any doubts about the story. Nor did they confront her with her evasive responses (but they did repeat the question, so that was good).
And yeah, I also noticed that your role is disappearing from / is never included in some accounts of how the RS story started to unravel. Seems like the Washington Post is getting most of the credit (in at least 1 article the WaPo does give you full credit), even though in their November 28 article where they interviewed Erdely they were sort of inadvertently noting things that would later be recognized as problems with the story, but at the time they didnt indicate that these were in fact problems.
What bugs me btw is how so many people who uncritically believed until it started to unravel are now angrily attacking Rolling Stone and Erdely instead of actually reflecting on their own roles as enablers, on why they were so willing to believe this story even though many of the problems with the story / reasons to at least be somewhat skeptical about it, should have been immediately clear after just reading it.
It’s not as if there was no way of knowing that the story had problems before these started to be discussed and examined in mainstream media. And there really have been remarkably few people who have publicly reflected on their own role in this and so many people who instead have angrily turned against Rolling Stone and Erdely.
Finally, yes, it most definitely took guts on your part to write and publish your article. Even when the article was so painstakingly and beautifully nuanced and reasonable and careful, this was not and never was going to be an obstacle for vicious critics to portray it as something else entirely.
12/9/2024 8:53 pm
Paul Farhi deserves ZERO credit for drawing attention to the story’s flaws. With an actual interview with Sabrina Rubin, he raised no serious doubts. Pathetic.
12/9/2024 9:25 pm
Off-topic, but I have a question: if Lena Dunham was really raped, why did she not only give her rapist a name and a political affiliation, but also say he worked for campus radio (and named his show), give him a flamboyant mustache, and other identifiable details?
I can understand a pseudonym, but what’s the deal with the other details? Were they invented as well, or were they true?
12/9/2024 9:57 pm
Zorba, all true. She just couldn’t imagine that anyone would hold her accountable for her words.
12/9/2024 10:53 pm
Richard, I heard a rumor that you were mostly retired….=0} I’m guessing it’s because the others are seen to carry more organizational weight behind them (blogs of media companies), while you just blog here with your shingle hanging out. Although it should be pointed out that you were not too small to be attacked…you were close to the only voice for awhile.
12/9/2024 11:27 pm
Shortest Straw, Steve McMahon’s RooshVForum poat was at 6:27 am. Iamdegaussed said this “The quotes by that Cindy person seem made up. It’s like a caricature to be honest.” at 4:27 am. Of note, McMahon questioned Erdely’s entire body of work in that first post going after her article about gay teens who are killing themselves because of Michele Bachmann.
12/9/2024 11:53 pm
Filmer, I stand corrected. Iamdegaussed was indeed two hours earlier. I overlooked that post because the forum seems to have agreed Steve’s won by weight.
Note the time stamps are adjusted based on your time zone. For me, they’re 1:27 and 3:27 AM.
But I gotta say, Pman’s post wins for sheer lolz.
12/9/2024 11:56 pm
To the commenter who asked if Richard is mostly retired…
He is the Editor-in-chief for Worth Magazine. This blog is something he does privately, though it has likely consumed more than its share of his time recently.
12/10/2024 12:05 am
As long as you are playing the game of who doubted the Rolling Stone story first. I didn’t even get through the first 10 paragraphs before crying BULLSHIT as loud as I could in my office.
And I went straight to the comments section at Rolling Stone and started battling the social justice star chamber. “California Mom” was the worst of the bunch. I fought her with facts, sarcasm, ridicule, impersonation — every tool at my disposal. Over the course of 4 days I had at least 4 or 5 different screen-names — I told her I was a journalist sent to Charlottesville to uncover discrepancies in the story, and she flipped her lid.
I was just so absolutely sure from the first read that a substantial part of Jackie’s story was complete and utter bullshit.
12/10/2024 1:50 am
This is exactly why I stopped subscribing to the NY-er. I stopped trusting that the people who write it aren’t agenda-driven idiots.
12/10/2024 8:16 am
Richard,
Mainstream media lives in a bubble. You were the first and you get to say that and your readers know that.
Congratulations on the good work! From an admirer from Brazil!
12/10/2024 8:25 am
Rich:
You do deserve the credit. It was a bold post. Just shows how lame reporting has become these days.
Next thing you know the powers that be will want to absolve Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld from any responsibility for torture post 9/11 … oh wait …
Keep up the good work.
12/10/2024 11:36 am
For what it’s worth, the National Post got it right:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/12/10/barbara-kay-rollings-stone-was-performing-advocacy-not-journalism/
“The first to query details in a Nov. 24 blog post was Richard Bradley, editor of Worth Magazine. His close reading of the piece and his accusation of “journalistic malpractice” (at Jackie’s request Erdely did not try to contact the accused men, or even speak with Jackie’s friends; she took Jackie’s word for everything she wrote as fact) sparked a wave of further criticism in outlets such as Bloomberg, Reason, Instapundit, the Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post.”
12/11/2023 1:11 am
What follows is a comment I made chiding Sharryl Atkisson for failing to acknowledge Richard Bradley and others credited in the linked American spectator article. On her blog;
http://sharylattkisson.com/rolling-stones-mossy-uva-rape-story#comments
she is crediting WaPo & other establishment “news” outlets while dismissing independent bloggers.
Jim Denney
December 8, 2023 at 2:28 am #
Sharryl,
I’m a big fan, but IMO this article wasn’t up to your usual standards. I realize you’re contrasting “news” sites versus tabloid type outlets, but by crediting the WaPo with debunking the RS story, you’re doing a disservice to the independent blogger and several others who did the heavy lifting on exposing what seems is likely a hoax.
“… Quite a few people, such as Richard Bradley, Robby Soave of Reason, the always-excellent Jonah Goldberg, and to a lesser degree Erik Wemple of the Washington Post, questioned the reliability of reporter Sabrina Rubin Erdely, particularly after she admitted in an interview that he had not spoken with the young men who were accused of the horrific crime. (Each of the linked articles is worth reading.)….”
http://spectator.org/blog/61170/rolling-stone-withdraws-explosive-story-uva-rape
12/12/2023 9:37 pm
It was very brave of you, Mr. Bradley. Very brave indeed. It was going way out on a limb. Not because you didn’t have a right to be skeptical-you did-but because the commentariat was crazy. I should note, though, that blogger Steve Sailer has been claiming credit for making your posts take off, and he is probably right. He is too hot for most mainstream journalists to acknowledge reading, but, quietly, many read him.
12/30/2014 10:57 am
You’re right. I should have included your name in that list.
12/30/2014 11:55 am
That’s very gracious of you, Margaret. Truth be told, in the time since I wrote that, I came to feel that I was making too much of it and I should just not worry. But I appreciate what your just wrote.