My Visit with Bill O’Reilly
Posted on May 20th, 2005 in Uncategorized | 5 Comments »
Don’t know if you saw it, but I went on The O’Reilly Factor last night to discuss the Harvard students’ production of a play about Abu Ghraib.
Here’s the background: When O’Reilly heard about this production, he sent a camera crew to film it. The crew apparently got permission from the student producers, which is required. But when they got to Harvard’s theater, they were turned away, per instruction of Robert Mitchell, the FAS press secretary. (In my experience, an officious and rude man, but never mind.)
So O’Reilly wanted to have a conversation about whether Harvard was “un-American.” I told his producer that I could say that, yes, Harvard had a history of anti-Semitism.Yes, it had a history of discriminating against women. That it was so elitist, it sometimes thought itself better than the rest of America, yes.
But un-American, no. That’s ridiculous. And as for the students involved, I would say that what they were doingâengaging in protest during wartimeâwas profoundly American. Whereas we’d like at least to think that the torture at Abu Ghraib was un-American.
Apparently, that worked; I’d be the token lefty. (I don’t think of that position as liberal, just informed. But things are what they are these days.)
I’d been on the show once before, about six years ago, but O’Reilly didn’t remember me. (Understandableâhe’s got a lot of guests coming through those doors.)
He’s changed since then, become cooler and more self-important. I liked him on that first appearance way back when. I have no idea what we were talking about, but O’Reilly seemed like he enjoyed a good fight and respected you if you gave him one. Now he gives the impression that he wants you to disagree with him because it’s good TV, but at the same time, how dare you?
Before the show, we were chatting about how the segment would go, and I said to O’Reilly, “You know I’m going to defend the students, right?”
His answer: “You can say whatever you want, just don’t say anything looney. My audience won’t like it if you say something looney, and you want to sell books, right? We know how to sell books here on the Factor.”
Here’s another way in which O’Reilly has changed: He uses the first-person plural to refer to himself.
I do want to sell books, so I agreed not to say anything looney.
As for the segment itself, I have no idea how it went; it’s impossible to tell when you’re going through it how you come across. The other participants were a Harvard undergrad named Matthew Downer, and a law student named Benjamin Shapiro, author of a book about how universities are corrupting young people whose title I can’t remember. (Sorry, Ben! But I’m sure it’s like nothing I’ve ever read before.)
Downerâthe president of the Harvard Republican Club, but not identified as suchâwas the only person who’d seen the play, so he had a distinct advantage over the rest of us. He used that advantage to argue that the play was “sympathetic to the cause of the insurgents,” something which I suspect is a load of crap. Sympathetic to the victims of torture, maybe. But to the cause of the insurgents? I seriously doubt it.
Anyway, O’Reilly was actually pretty reasonable, in his way, although I did try to call him out when he labeled “Abu Ghraib” (the play) as un-American. And he’s great on TV, there’s no question about that. The guy has total command in that studio. Moreover, he instructed us beforehand not to talk over each other, as we’d each get time to talk, and he was true to his word on that.
Most of all, I tried not to say anything looney. I knew his audience would never stand for that.
5 Responses
5/20/2005 10:13 am
nothing looney, i promise.
5/22/2005 6:07 pm
Hey Richard - I was reading your post about our appearance on “the factor” and thought I’d respond to your “load of crap” comment about my characterization of the play, primarily because I’m supposed to be writing a term paper and needed some procrastination.
The play tried to engender sympathy for the cause of the insurgents in a number of ways. At one point, the insurgent says, “I could either stand by and watch as my country was raped and murdered or I could join in the resistance. Yes I have shot and killed coalition soldiers, I have thrown grenades and my brother strapped bombs to his body and blew up the enemy – but don’t call me an insurgent, I am not an insurgent. I am not a terrorist, I am a liberator.” The opposing point of view was not presented. Also, the abuse at Abu Gharib was referred to as the “hypocrisy of America” because while they claim to be trying to liberate Iraq, they are actually here to torture.
America’s foreign policy was portrayed as targeting Islam – a claim that is inaccurate, clichéd, and irresponsible – one torture scene (in which the Major General actually participated) did not end until the prisoners cursed Allah and praised Jesus. That Major General, Lipinski I think, then addressed the audience and defended the torture as necessary to beat the “dogs” into submission. All this in spite of the fact that there is no evidence the Major General even had any knowledge of the abuse and has publicly condemned it as a horrible tragedy.
When showing a video of America’s “human rights abuses,” they included shots of the military moving into Iraq – footage from CNN and FNC etc. They showed scenes from 9/11 in the same section.
I have a lot of friends who were involved in the cast and crew (not to mention the writer, director, and producer). I went to the play with an open mind, expecting it to, as the website said, try to bring attention to human rights abuses. I would not have chosen to do so through a play on this topic because I think it disparages the many heroes in our military, but if that was all they were trying to do, I wouldn’t have been overly critical. The play, however, went way beyond human rights awareness to the point of extending blame for the abuse beyond those who were there to the military, and foreign policy strategy, at large.
Anyway, back to my paper. Good luck selling books!
Matthew Downer
5/22/2005 10:32 pm
Matt,
Thanks for taking the time to respond, and my apologies if I was unfair. But I’m still not entirely convinced by your post (and I’ll admit, it may be because I don’t want to be; it’s just hard to imagine that any Harvard student could sympathize with the insurgents).
I don’t think that the quote you mention from the insurgent means that those involved in the play are endorsing the sentiment; isn’t this the kind of thing one might imagine one of the Iraqui insurgents to say?
I do think there’s substantial evidence to suggest that some of the misbehavior at Abu Ghraib, in Guantanamo, and in Afghanistan *was* targeted at Islam—or at least at the prisoners’ faith in Islam.
I don’t have a problem saying that Abu Ghraib represents the hypocrisy of America. It is certainly hypocritical. Thankfully, it is not typical of America.
As for Lipinski, it sounds as if the play does him a serious disservice. This doesn’t make it sympathetic to the cause of the insurgents, though—just unfair in this particular instance.
To me, the play doesn’t disparage the heroes in the military; it’s the few soldiers who committed acts of torture and abuse who disparage American heroes.
Good luck writing your paper!
5/22/2005 10:51 pm
You make a good point, and perhaps this is where it is difficult to discuss with people who haven’t seen the play. I understand that the arguements made could seem like an insurgent just having a realistic character and script etc, but the overall feeling I got from being there was that this was the perspective the play was trying to promote - the lack of an opposing viewpoint probably contributed. I’m not saying these people are “unamerican.” I agree with you in that they have every right to speak their minds and that protesting human rights abuses is distinctly more American (whatever that really means) than those who committed the abuses.
When I say they were trying to engender sympathy, I mean that thye portray the war as a whole as unjust and by extension (but also directly) the insurgents as freedom fighters trying to protect their homes and families, rather than terrorists who have made no effort to spare innocent Iraqi and would rather kill innocent civilians of their own people than allow the country to be rebuilt into a prosperous and democratic society.
I don’t like throwing around terms like “unamerican” but I do think that this thinking is very wrong.
anyway - take care.
Matthew Downer
5/22/2005 11:16 pm
Matthew,
About this quote:
“I mean that they portray the war as a whole as unjust and by extension (but also directly) the insurgents as freedom fighters trying to protect their homes and families, rather than terrorists who have made no effort to spare innocent Iraqi and would rather kill innocent civilians of their own people than allow the country to be rebuilt into a prosperous and democratic society.”
The key phrase there seems to be “by extension.” Does the play make the stuff after that phrase explicit? Or are you saying that it follows logically from the first part of your sentence, that the play presents the war as unjust?
Because after all, it’s possible to think that the war is unjust without thinking that the insurgents are patriots or heroes or any such thing…. I have my issues with the war—particularly the way in which it was justified—but I certainly have no sympathy for the insurgents, for the very reasons you mention.
Can we get someone from the play involved in this discussion? I’d be curious to hear their take. (It’s a shame they weren’t on the Factor too.)
Richard